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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 23:10 
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see question in title. Had multiple problems this last tournament. Also had a number of balls pop up that I thought were pushes by my opponent, but evidently had to have been topspin.

thanx for any thoughts


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 23:41 
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Try putting the tip of the blade down towards the table and make a movement upward hitting the ball on the highest point ..... if you let the ball drop just a little the ball will die on the net .....


...that is a good strategy for short, mid table low dead balls .....your wrist must be stiff and the hitting must be short and sharp..... :)


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 01:03 
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I've been using thin-sponged low grip pips, not OX, but I've been having this issue against a specific player who's been effective at using dead serves & no-spin pushes against me.

I've personally found the most success with taking a half-step back & chopping the ball with a larger swing than a normal push. It'll send back a no-spin ball, but as long as I'm making sure the pips bend I find that I can keep it long & low somewhat consistently. I do find that I have to keep the bat angle closed and add more forward momentum bit more than normal (halfway between a chop & shoveling it back over the net) compared to a normal chop, but I'm not sure if this will be the same for OX.

After that, it's pretty much all the normal things to consider; vary placement so the attacker doesn't get comfortable, drop it short/half long for variation, etc. Sometimes I'll try throwing in a twiddled inverted push (if I have a good read on the serve), but that's not really the point of this thread, I guess. And of course, all of this is easier said than done!


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 02:35 
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The chop Hopsquatch suggests is one good option, and depending on your opponent's skills, I tend to direct that chop either at the opponent's playing elbow or very deep into the backhand corner, and then you can sometimes catch them sleeping if you send it deep and down the line to the forehand corner (assuming a right-handed opponent). The other option that can be more aggressive and difficult to handle than a chop is a sideswipe. There might be better videos out there, but here's one: https://youtu.be/vjMSGj8_4xI

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 03:56 
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I still have a big problem dealing with fast long low no spin serves. I kinda wish there was a video out there to show us how to deal with it with low friction OX pips. I am planning to ask someone to keep serving it so I can learn.

But I will try what you said above, luckily not many people can do it fast long and low. Consistently anyway.

With sponge it is actually a little easier with the option of looping it (especially if pips are a little grippy)

A short no spin ball with OX you can banana flick it btw. Mid longs you have a few options but I don't really know what the LP shots are called properly. But the easy option is to do a push except you go slightly upwards motion (shovel shot?) Without such an open blade angle.
You can also sideswipe it but it's harder to pull off with no spin (requires you to take it off the bounce, or peak, basically be quick lol).

For the long ones the big shovel or chop like mentioned above are your options. It's when it's very fast and low too where I just cannot seem to deal with it tbh, or I get a lousy shovel return and they 3rd ball kill it

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 05:36 
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This might be useful for this discussion: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=18471&start=141

leatherback wrote:
haggisv wrote:
leatherback: Since you're still playing with OX LP, what do the coaches there suggest you do with a deep serve with little spin to your backhand? Do they suggest you chop it back with as much backspin as you can, or do they encourage you to attack it?


Im actually not coached on this aspect at all... but i practice this as much as i can....

its no secret that this is the bane of all long pip players....

3 things you can do....

attack it back and try to scare them into doing it again....

chop it as deep as possible....doesnt matter about the spin, but if its very long then it is already much more difficult to attack strongly...

learn to drop it short.....this is very difficult but if performed properly the attacker usually gets very confused and leave you with an opportunity for an attack....

you can also try to attack with forehand or twiddle, but this is low percentage if the ball is very fast...


I usually do option #2, as I stated above. I've tried option 3, but I have trouble controlling the height of the ball (even with a little sponge... or maybe it's easier in ox?).


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 05:55 
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Fascinating (and very relevant) topic - long ones I'm mostly trying to chop back, as deep as possible, or at least to a spot that forces opponent to move, even if a little. I'm actually more troubled by long backspin serves to my BH, from one guy in particular - I either net them or give him an easy 3rd ball to kill :(

Short no-spin serves is where my troubles are at the moment: after a long pandemic-induced break, my LP shots suffered greatly. I'm having more successes with twiddling to inverted on receive. Hopefully my 'touch' with LP recovers soon.

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 08:38 
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I have usually stepped back and chopped. Works for balls that do not double bounce obviously, but I tend to give up the table too quickly so I am trying to not do that as often.


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 12:12 
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vanjr wrote:
I have usually stepped back and chopped. Works for balls that do not double bounce obviously, but I tend to give up the table too quickly so I am trying to not do that as often.


Hmmm.... if you're trying to not give up the table, that becomes tricky. I guess you have to develop one of the other choices:
1) practice attacking these long, no-spin balls with pips
2) practice dropping these balls short
3) practice twiddling & playing inverted shots on the backhand (either chop or attack), or pivot & attack with the forehand.

I don't know your particular style or footwork, but option 3 would be hard for the reasons Leatherback originally mentioned (no-spin serves are too fast reliably to twiddle on reaction or pivot & attack with the forehand). Maybe it'd work on no-spin pushes? You could twiddle pre-emptively, but that opens a whole other can of worms of being comfortable with pips on the forehand & inverted on the backhand for any kind of ball (spinny short push, loop, etc.)

Option 1 is of course the best option in a perfect world, but if attacking no-spin balls with OX LP was easy, every OX LP user would do it.

Option 2 seems to be the "safest" option of the three, as long as you can keep the ball low. Even if it drifts long, as long as it's always low & SOMETIMES short it might be okay? Again, easier said than done.

Perhaps you could combine these with stepping back & chopping? Have stepping back & chopping be your usual response (since it's the safest/easiest to do well), but if your opponent repeatedly serves or pushes long & no-spin to force you away then switch to one of the 3 other options (whichever you feel most comfortable with). Or vice versa, try one of the 3 options be your usual response, but if that isn't working for some reason THEN step back & chop.

I guess at the end of the day it depends on what shots you feel comfortable performing / what ends up working best. I'm interested to hear back on what you find success with!


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 16:03 
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You could of course stand a bit further for the receive but as stated you give up the table which imo is a bad idea with LPs (with OX anyway) as you really need to to take the non long serves quite quickly to give a good return consistently. So when someone has a nasty long and fast no spin or back spin serve it can really catch you with your pants down.

Attacking the no spin balls I feel is just too much of a high risk low reward shot tbh. The chop would be the safest option. For backspin the sideswipe? Or whatever the shot I do it called is very safe and ez to pull off though. It's the no spin ones which feel difficult to do without an easy 3rd ball kill.

I will try my best in the next couple of weeks to get someone to serve it to me and hopefully get a good answer

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 22:00 
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TBH,if you chop the no spin ball with a low grip pip like D.techs,the resulting third ball will be easy to attack.Ndragon,you know this as you have been returning serves in this way,right?.Therefore, if you do chop the ball,as my friend Merlín el mago very well put it,the best strategy is to chop with inverted unless you play with a fast blade and then, the chops with D.techs will be fast enough to put the opponent under pressure ,however, a good looper who pivots very well will attack the third ball consistently .


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 22:11 
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I do have success flipping my paddle and returning with my inverted side. But by far having the LP on my FH is a huge liability, so unless I flip quickly back, I am in trouble. (
Working on my flipping during a point is "yet another thing" I have to work on-as if that list was not long enough!


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 23:42 
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vanjr wrote:
Working on [insert skill here] during a point is "yet another thing" I have to work on-as if that list was not long enough!


Ow, I felt that one :|


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PostPosted: 23 Sep 2021, 00:14 
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charmander defender wrote:
TBH,if you chop the no spin ball with a low grip pip like D.techs,the resulting third ball will be easy to attack.Ndragon,you know this as you have been returning serves in this way,right?.Therefore, if you do chop the ball,as my friend Merlín el mago very well put it,the best strategy is to chop with inverted unless you play with a fast blade and then, the chops with D.techs will be fast enough to put the opponent under pressure ,however, a good looper who pivots very well will attack the third ball consistently .


Spot on. Although I've stopped taking a step back for a long time already. Instead I try to take all serves early

This receive is honestly 50 50 for me I could probably lose a whole game if they done it lol. My best answer is a taking it early with a shovel receive trying to make it short or half long, as long as its low over the net I'm usually good.


The twiddling thing I definitely cannot do as the serve is so fast and I need to be ready for all the other serves he throws at me.
In fairness there has only been 1 guy to do this to me and that's Anatol (div1 70-80% player). The other few people to do it aren't quite as fast the serve so I have much more success vs it

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PostPosted: 23 Sep 2021, 00:41 
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If I receive a long float ball from a serve or a push, it'll often catch me out the first time - I'll play a very average LP return which can be quite easily attacked. This is a pain if someone chucks such a serve in at a key point. However, if an opponent tries to do this more than once, I'll always aim to play an attacking shot with my inverted rubber (e.g. twiddle on BH if it comes that side) because if an opponent thinks I'm capable of attacking that ball, I find they're way less likely to use it.

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