Nike 9000 wrote:
From my years of experience testing all kinds of long pips combinations & permutations at higher amateur levels over 2100 in tournaments as well in leagues , below is my opinion & I know many players may disagree., which is fine
For almost all amateur players playing mostly against players rated below USATT 2200, as far as I am concerned, there are only and only two possibilities.
Away from the table choppers, if they still exist, must use high friction long pips like Feint Long 3 OX
Close to the table blockers must use low friction long pips like Tibhar Dtec OX
OX only. No sponge.
Sponge thickness 1.0 mm to 1.5 mm is TOTALLY useless in almost all cases amateur or pro. Almost all pros I know of, use at least 1.8 mm thick sponge under long pips. 1.8 mm is the max legally possible to keep the total rubber thickness below 4 mm including pip length limit of 2 mm & glue. 1.8 mm may even be high maybe 1.7 mm.
In rare cases such 1.8 mm thick sponge long pips may work for amateur players with truly all around skills on long pips side .......blocking, chopping, lobbing, smashing & fake looping(or heavy spin looping after twiddling) but this is the exception rather than the rule.
Many medium pips or any 1.5 mm LP or MP may be good as transition rubbers for players trying to switch to long pips for first time, but that is not a final end point.
When you put 1 mm to 1.5 mm sponge under long pips at amateur levels you lost the control of OX but also do not have maximum power of 1.8 mm sponge. Pros need 1.8 mm for a different reason because the boosted incoming loops sink deep into the sponge and almost hit the wood and shoots off the end. (In many chopper vs looper pro videos, you will occasionally see the ball shoot off the looper end even with chopper using long pips with 1.8 mm sponge). For an amateur this is not a problem but in fact the loss of control of sponge as compared to OX is a bigger problem for amateurs who deal with lower spins and speeds.
I only use long pips OX now. I gave 1.0 mm to 1.5 mm sponge a good try like 10 times over the years but failed miserably. But I had good success against 2200 players with 1.8 mm sponge OX (specifically TSP Curl P3……….no they don’t make 1.8 mm. I customized it , though all my big wins against 2200+ players came using OX sponge) .
I am currently modifying a racket. The custom made blade is way too fast for the long pips I like mostly for chopping and some blocking and this results in less back spin (reversal) on backhand & less top spin on my forehand with spinny inverted rubber.. So I am adding a 0.5 mm sponge under the long pips . I know from my past experiences (about 10 times) for sure that I will lose some control but will risk it to gain back the spin reversal on backhand & top spin on forehand. I will see how it goes. BTW I also am trying KTL Pro XT instead of the more powerful Mercury I use on my forehand as well. It is also known to be the litest rubber I think. I like this high speed of the blade a lot but don’t like the loss of back spin (reversal) on backhand & top spin on forehand . So I am trying to slow down both sides to see how it goes.
I actually quite completely agree with you. Almost all successful Pro level players who use shakehand LP are choppers, and to properly chop, you will need some sponge, is it 1.0, 1.5, or 1.8, I don't know, because I am not a chopper.
Penholder LP, is a bit another topic, so we skip that for this reply.
For amateur shakehander, or anyone who is shakehand, playing LP, but not chopping, USATT 2200 is probably quite a good estimate of the "max" level. But again, if Ma Long, wants to play around a take any LP shakehand blade, inverted the other side, he can still easily be well over 2200 USATT, he can get over 2200, only use his forehand inverted, but those are, another story.
So we say, real long pimples players, who don't chop. max out at 2200, is about where I would guess. And yes, most likely OX with quite frictionless LP like Grass Dtecs will give best results. And surprise, that's the kind of set up I'm using.
However, I know a lot of amateur players like to attack or attack more, or try ot attack more with the LP and with some sponge, is easier. But against players who are over 2000 rating, a LP attack is more of a novelty than a real threat, take half step back and can return it safely. But against lower level players, of course, any attack is threatening, and being able to attack with LP is intriguing and somehow cool, because a lot of people can't do it well.
For myself, I want to get myself back to around a 2000 rating level, and my arm had injuries, so I can't backhand attack very hard anyway, so I choose not to bother with attacking with LP. But I know a lot of LP players want to attack with their LP.
So I guess it's a bit where you want your level to be, and how you enjoy the game, to determine how much sponge or OX is best for each of us