OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi everyone. I think I'm going to transition back to long pips from anti. I've been testing some of the latest long pips in OX. In my early testing phase, I've found that I like both Hellfire X and Spectre.

Examining the pips, testing their grip level, and playing with them, they seem very similar to me. I think Spectre might be slightly slower.

Does anyone have experience using both of those rubbers in OX? If so, I'd be interested to hear your experiences and if you found any differences.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I'm very interested in the comparison. I'm in the same situation and want to change back to long-pips from anti.
For me, it would also be nice to add the Troublemaker to this comparison.
Cheers!

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TTR: 1806 | YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tohidtt

To speak very simple:

Spectre has a little worse reversal spin in my opinion than hellfire x
Spectre has a feeling for me too smooth, to soft in touch with the ball comparing to hellfire x
Spectre has definitely in my opinion lower tempo than hellfire, for me personally is to low, hellfire x is also not so very fast rubber for it is fastest than spectre.
Both pimples are very good to play close to the table, from distance I think Spectre is more difficult for the opponent than hellfire.

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Thanks, that is a very good comparison. Your impressions are very similar to what I've seen in my robot practice sessions. I agree that I wouldn't call either "fast". Just that Spectre might be a little softer, slower, less reversal. I have a stiff, fast blade, and the one area I really noticed the difference was on touch shots. On my blade, I had a more difficult time controlling short balls with the Hellfire X.

I feel like they both hit well too, with their grip they can spin the ball well and can counter hit against moderate top spin.

I tried Troublemaker a few years ago when I was using pips, it's a good all around rubber. I think it's in the same pips type as these, but I don't remember enough about how it specifically played to give a good comparison.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Had a session with my coach today where we compared the two. He noted that he was getting a "significant" amount more reversal back at him when returning top spin passively with the Hellfire X. He did agree that the Spectre was a good rubber and maybe a little more controllable due to the pips being a little more firm. But there was enough of a difference in the effectiveness of the defense and hitting with my blade that I was better off using the Hellfire X. On to the next comparison.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to switch back to long pips? (If you've already addressed this elsewhere, just point to it if it's easy to point to.) I flirted with frictionless anti myself (too briefly to say that I really gave it a fair shot) and found it too one-dimensional and predictable, whereas with long pips, just by making different kinds of contact, I could keep opponents guessing about how much spin was on the ball. And I also like that long pips are more insensitive to sidespin.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Tradesman, for a few reasons. One that you hit on. Once someone figures it out, there isn't much you can do. The better players that play at high levels are very effective at twiddling to attack and stepping around to use the forehand frequently. After using it for a couple of years now and playing some tournaments, at the last tournament it became apparent that was not going to be a style that worked for me.

Another reason, my skills are different than what they used to be. I've been getting coaching. I've switched my grip from a homemade Seemiller-style grip to a traditional shakehand grip. While training with the anti, I've gotten much better at being stable with my angles and my passive block is much better than it used to be. And now that I can hit with more of a traditional shakehand style motion, hitting with the pips will be more consistent.

What I realized in the last tournament is, I need to be able to attack on the backhand without twiddling or running around. Anti just doesn't allow me to do that. Plus, as you note, I am able to generate my own spin, and also serving with the pips from time to time is a weapon that I missed having. I feel like the 2-3 years I used anti with training was enough time to be fully committed that I tried it and, at least right now, it's not a match for me.

I also had some players that I've known for years tell me that I was better with pips. That kind of feedback is really valuable. I've been ignoring it for a while, because I wanted to stay committed to the anti and feel like I gave it a fair shot.

Hellfire X and Spectre are both really good pips. Dr Neubauer Punch didn't fit with what I want to have in a pip, that is, a lot of grip. I have a sheet of Dornenglanz to try, I've never used it. I also have a sheet of Grass D Tec S, I used to use that years ago. And I also got a sheet of the Dr Neubauer Killer Pro, in case I want to go really different.

With tournaments coming up, I'm trying to get in as much robot time and coaching as I can. Right now Hellfire X is the leader in my comparisons to be what I use in the upcoming tournaments, but I should also be able to get a couple of training sessions with some of the others to compare to.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I would be interested in how the LP play on stiga cybershape blade? (maybe another thread I missed?).

I can't help you with your comparison question. Except to say that I have spent way to much time on trying to find the just right LP. I think in general terms one needs to decide what you want (OX vs sponge and grippy vs less grippy pips) and just pick a rubber that you have a good source to buy from and go with it and stay with it-even as new stuff comes out. Technique triumphs over equipment, and training leads to good technique.

Good luck.

All of that makes sense. My own solution to the need to be more aggressive rather than purely passive, given the lower spin (and, therefore, lower spin reversal) with the plastic ball, was to spend the period of the pandemic lockdown training myself to loop and attack far more consistently with inverted backhand, so that now, against higher level players who don't tremble when they see pips and don't make gross errors misreading spin, I routinely use my pips backhand to get back a weak push/floater-type return, setting up my inverted backhand to finish the point. Given my right-foot-forward chicken-wing style, I find it a lot easier to use my backhand to finish points than to step around to use my forehand, so this seems to be working for me. But good luck getting back to pips. I'd tried Neubauer's Punch rubber also and had found it utterly ineffective to block strong topspin, no matter what I did (everything shot up and sailed long), but the Hellfire X and Spectre are two of the best out there that I'm aware of.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

I have played long time with Troublemaker, but lately I have played Hellfire X, blade Sanwei F3 pro (Timo boll ALC copy). Hellfire X lasted about 3 months, then pips startd falling. It is quite insensitive to spin, but still easy to play active. Troublemaker is slower and more grippy, but somehow it seems as effective as Hellfire X. With Troublemaker you can manipulate the spin a bit, Hellfire is so insensitive that even chopping motion is quite useless in adding the spin. With troublemaker you have to close the blade a bit agaist spinny balls, With Hellfire X vertical blade position works agains most balls.

Make sense: Troublemaker more grippy more reaction to spin.

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No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

Refresh my memory... does Hellfire X come with a glue sheet attached?

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If I remember well, yes comes with adhesive foil.

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

I’m very interested in this thread. I’ve now used anti for two years since my return to table tennis. I’ve had some really good wins and my win percentage in year two is way ahead of my first year back. But people keep telling me I was way nastier to play against when I had long pimples on my back hand.

There is a serious psychological factor with many opponents when they know you have pimples. That doesn’t exist now with anti and people who really struggled to get their head around my style of play, are way more comfortable now.

I’m waiting on delivery today of a new bat, which is set up exactly the same for blade and forehand, but has Dr N desperado reloaded on the backhand. I thought I’d try that first in the off-season, on the basis, I can always switch back to the tried and tested dtecs, if that doesn’t work for me. But I’m becoming increasingly interested in Hellfire X based on this thread.

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Tango Ultra 2mm black, DMS Storkraft 1.6mm red, DMS Invictus
Well done bat!

FL anti sellers boast about the high spin reversal of the anti to mesmerize you to believe this is the ultimate defence weapon when , in reality, antis are just a shield.If you play like a pro does, then, the anti is just a tool to set up a great fh attack.At our levels,the anti has no gears at all to vary the game and clever opponents will give you no spin.

Pips can defend and attack very well, have many more gears and the no spin ball should not be any problem if you have enough resources either with the pip or the inverted.The fewer resources you have, the lower the level ; the more resources, the higher the level .

At some point you must use your inverted on the bh so the opponent won't know what you are going to do.Once you are predictable,good players will beat you easily with any pip you have.