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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2007, 12:31 
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I was just wondered what your thoughts are on making the move from Frictionless to Friction LP’s.

I currently use Inferno and it’s a simple process of standing close to the table and blocking everything back…spin has no affect what so ever.

However, the pimple is very one dimensional and a major target by better players, hence the move to a friction pimple.

Having tried Haggisv’s, 1m Leggy last weekend I found this near impossible to control. Any return of loop would fly of the end of the table, very reminiscent of my inverted backhand days.

With Frictionless you merely block vertically, I guess friction you need some sort of angle on your bat? I also assume using a grippy pimple it’s not so passive like the Dr. N, meaning you don’t just block, you need some sort of action.

Playing with grippy pimples, is it possible to play close to the table, or is the better way to play away from the table?

I even find returning spinney serves with a grippy pimple quite difficult. I believe Dr N, has stole some of my ability to play these basic shots, which is kind of scary to think about, considering I don’t play at the bottom level. So how much of my ability and ranking do I give credit to the rubber, something I would prefer not to think about (that opens up the old comment of ‘you only won because of your pimples).

The reason I want to change is that I find myself a sitting target on my backhand. Especially, no spin shots. All I can do is push back, I need to be able to play this shot more aggressively. Also with the LP ban talk, it might be time to make the move.

Maybe the Curl Combi could be the way to go?

This might be a difficult transition.

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2007, 13:15 
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I think one reason you had trouble with the Leggy is the very soft 1mm sponge. Without sponge that rubber would feel much slower on blocks, and because the dwell time would be a lot less, you'd be much less susceptable to incoming spin...

I struggled myself on blocks, passive blocks are just not that good with a rubber with such a soft and springy sponge...

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2007, 13:20 
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"However, the pimple is very one dimensional and a major target by better players, hence the move to a friction pimple."
Not gonna help much!!! unless you play far from table.

"Having tried Haggisv’s, 1m Leggy last weekend I found this near impossible to control. Any return of loop would fly of the end of the table, very reminiscent of my inverted backhand days."
Practice. :D

With Frictionless you merely block vertically, I guess friction you need some sort of angle on your bat? I also assume using a grippy pimple it’s not so passive like the Dr. N, meaning you don’t just block, you need some sort of action.
I assume that changing means you want to change your style too(blocking to chopping).
Dr.N is the best at blocking at table but not great at chopping.


Playing with grippy pimples, is it possible to play close to the table, or is the better way to play away from the table?
See above.
I even find returning spinney serves with a grippy pimple quite difficult. I believe Dr N, has stole some of my ability to play these basic shots, which is kind of scary to think about, considering I don’t play at the bottom level. So how much of my ability and ranking do I give credit to the rubber, something I would prefer not to think about (that opens up the old comment of ‘you only won because of your pimples).
Playing pips gotta practice too but at lower level, pips is king. At higher, inverted is king.

The reason I want to change is that I find myself a sitting target on my backhand. Especially, no spin shots. All I can do is push back, I need to be able to play this shot more aggressively. Also with the LP ban talk, it might be time to make the move.
It's about style, friction is not gonna help you much.

Maybe the Curl Combi could be the way to go?
I'm waiting for review too!! 8)

This might be a difficult transition.
Learn to chop and play with different tactics then you'll be fine. :P

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2007, 20:48 
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Briefly (got deadlines to meet):

I'd develop your fricitonless pip play further before moving to soft pips.

1. Learn the 5 (or 7 depending how you count) key frictionless strokes and the importance of the 'dropshot'. The Neubauer video explains these clearly as does Hallmark's video.
2. Learn to twiddle

You can then transfer the key moves into soft pip play. Soft pip play does hinge around spin variation on a dominant stroke (chop or punch block), but you can develop these in frictionless.

Frictionless does allow spin variation and should be able to hold down a good player (outside professional standard, i.e. super fit, superb offensive technique). SuperBlock may improve your game. Frictionless doesn't allow you to disguise the spin and thats what soft pips offer to varying degrees.

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2007, 20:50 
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Combi review will take a few weeks I'm afraid. Speed gluing Allegator soft has resulted in a very good soft/hard pip and I want to fully explore this, particularly whilst its still (long-life) speed glued.


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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2007, 02:38 
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It sounds as you like your Saviga V...

From frictionless to grippy it is not really easy. I have played with a SB and now with a Monster and I have tried the 955... really different.

I maybe disturb some players while chopping but not so much as I use the Monster also by chopping.

I discuss sometimes with Carsten Neubauer and I am not the only one using a Neubauer for modern or classical defense.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2007, 04:54 
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Sure this is not the same, also between th superblock and the Monster it is not the same... One day maybe, I will try the Saviga V.
If only we had news about the eventual interdiction...

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2007, 06:40 
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speedplay wrote:
Yes, I sure do like my Saviga V, it's a wonderful rubber which gets me somewhat confused. Cause, according to my own gut-feeling I play better with this then I do with SB but the results leaves no doubt. Playing with SB I have grabbed a set against 2 of our 3 best players. I'm fitting right into the squad below them, win some an lose some. When I play with Saviga V, I'm in the lower section, grabbing set against the middle section and being humiliated by the top players.

Still, my gut feelings tell me to keep on working with the Saviga V and I'm sure it will get me further in the long run then the SB. How can I be so sure? Cause my regular training partner have already figured it out and soon will the others. With Saviga V I can manipulate the spin myself and make it harder for my opponent to see what is coming at him.

But noubt, it's a completly different game then the one with SB.


Yes it is a different game, I agree!

Manipulating the spin yourself will ultimately make you a better player, because the higher level you play, the less you can rely on the pips doing thew work :lol:
The 388D might be a little easier to control, probable a more controlled version fo the Saviga V, this would be worth a try.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2007, 09:22 
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Last night I had a hit with 955 OX. Very strange feeling because I could actually loop the ball with my backhand and forehand, which will open up a whole lot of twiddling possibilities and hopefully confusion for the opponent. It seemed to be generating spin, enough to loop. How this plays out in a match I’m not sure. I guess my game will go back before it goes forward. I actively have to remember not to be lazy with top spin blocks like the Inferno, I think this will be the biggest adjustment.

Using 955 I don’t think if I will get the cheap spin reversal points, but from what I have noticed these are getting less and less in the higher level I am playing. I’m quite excited with the prospect of being able to hit a no spin ball, rather than pushing them back. I feel I can play a more aggressively with this Pimple.

Have comp. tonight, I will give it a crack and see how badly I play.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2007, 10:29 
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The topspin type strokes should give you some topspin, but the flat blocks should give you spin reversal. I think this is exactly what you want.

You need to be able to generate some topspin when you attack to make the ball drop. When you block flat against a loop, you want spin reversal, and take the pace off, which it does seem to do, but not to the extent of the Dr N.

The chop-blocks were great with 955 OX, but I don't have the skills to do those at high speed...

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2007, 05:20 
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can someone explain to me the differences between frictionless and non-frictionless LP ? I've never tried frictionless LP.

Another question, when we use LP to chop, how does it differ from chop by inverted rubber ?


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2007, 06:15 
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check this out: http://www.ittf.com/stories/Forum_detai ... Forumn=93&

I would like to know why ITTF need to ban frictionless pimples ?


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2007, 07:18 
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Kyle,

I have a guide on long pimples here, that explains the main difference:

long pimple basics

We don't mind you asking questions, but I think if you search a little you can find a lot of answers to yuor questions already..

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2007, 07:18 
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Frictionless read 'glassy' that is very slippery, the ball just skids across the pips and produces heaps of reverse spin. Sticky long pips are two types sticky and less sticky. As a general rule Chinese pips are sticky and the European/ Japanese pips are non-sticky. Its only a general rule though.

Long pip ban - yeah we put a letter together and posted to the English TTA complaining about the proposed ban. ITTF is after frictionless pips - but its likely the ban, if it ever happens, will take some time. Basically what you are reading is scaremongering tactics. Anyway it sure frightened us...

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2007, 11:11 
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yeah .. thanks.

But why do they need to ban frictionless LP ? Is it an undefeatable weapon ?


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