OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The chinese people only differentiate between pimples out and long.
Where´s the difference in playing? For example between FS 802 and 563-1 and 799. Is 799 a medium pip or a short pip? Or Double Fish 820A?

It's not just the Chinese - In the LARC, rubbers are marked as IN (inverted, "pips in"), OUT and LONG. So medium pips are lumped in with short pips.

The difference? I suppose medium pips is in between short and long pips.. literally. Long pips are slick and reverse spin, this also makes it hard for them to create their own spin, while short pips have more friction and don't reverse spin, and create their own spin. Medium pips? In between.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=32976&start=75#p375084

Iskandar

I know the terms of classification. Are there MLP especially for FH. There must be some penhold players with single sided MLP´s for example. What are the advantages/disadvantages in comparison to SP? Can I play the same way?
The MLP are something special. And I don´t know any high class player using them.

short pimples: better control, medium pips: stronger disruptional/sinking effect, worse control

some female players in the top 100 i believe do use medium pimples on their backhand and amelie solja sometimes also has/had them on the forehand

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I guess the most famous MP player is Ai Fukuhara who quit only a few years ago. She was the best japaneese woman a long time. Mima Ito followed her style a bit, but with SP instead of MP.

One way to use pimples is the way Cherepnin plays, with SP on FH and mostly MP on BH, here Aggressor Pro 1.5 mm:
https://youtu.be/KJztl2cuDdk

Aggresssor is on the far end of "pimple out" almost classified as a long pimple with very tall pips, almost no grip and on a fast sponge. Then you have the Nittaku Moristo that I believe Ai F used, which also comes in a short pimple version (I think Mima Ito uses that). And there are all sorts of pips in between.

There are also players who uses long pimples as if they were medium or short pimples, mostly women players (like He Zhuojia, ranked around 15 in the world).

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Ito Mima and Fukuhara Ai.

Iskandar

Moin,

IMHO Fukuhara played Armstrong Attack l-version (MLP) and Ito
plays Moristo SP (SP, no surprise).
Armstrong Attack tends to short pip, thats why their styles are alike.

Good example for MLP backhand (563) and SP Forehand (TSP Spinpips) is australian Miao Miao on youtube

Greetings Claus

If the necro can be forgiven, I believe the Japanese womens' national team choppers Hitomi Sato and Honoka Hashimoto are both using Nittaku DO-Knuckle medium pips on their backhands.

Also, it appears in some literature that the term "half-long pips" is used as a synonym for medium pips.

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Currently experimenting with short pips: VKMO + Xiom Vega China VM + TSP Super Spinpips Chop 1 (1.5)

The ITTF doesn't define "medium pips", I wonder how WE tell short and medium pips apart. What's the cut-off?

Iskandar

iskandar taib wrote:

The ITTF doesn't define "medium pips", I wonder how WE tell short and medium pips apart. What's the cut-off?

Iskandar

I don't think there is one anymore, there are so many variations now, short pips, long short pips (Killer Pro Evo) or short medium pips on one end of the spectrum, and short long pips (Do Knuckle?) to long pips on the other side. Then you have to decide where stuff like P3 and MilliTall 2 and PimpleMini fall, hence why the ITTF did something smart, and only recognizes short and long pips. I think there is a thread on this forum where they tried to hash out what a medium pip is (or was at that time anyway), found it.

haggisv wrote:

I think most of us intuitively understand a medium pip to be a rubber with pimple properties somewhere in between short and long pips, and similarly with pip length to be somewhere between the two. The ITTF does not define medium pips in their "approved rubber list", even though the term is commonly accepted.

So it would be worthwhile for us to generate a list of all the medium pip rubbers, so that we all know we're posting in the right section. Hopefully someone knows of such a list already, and can post it here, or otherwise we can go through the list and identify them brand by brand...

BTW "noppen-test" (major German pimple site, cheers MNNB!) defines medium pips as having a length between 0.8 and 1.4mm (aspect ratio: 0.8-0.9). Are we happy to accept this for our forum as well?

I'm making this up as I go but you can take you pick: short pips < long short pips < short medium pips < medium pips < long medium pips < short long pips < long pips. Mostly marketing, IMHO.

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It's been quite some time but back in the day i once tried

729's medium pips. 563-1

I don't remember what sponge thickness. I'm guessing 1.5mm.

I remember at times thinking it didn't play all that different from regular SP 802 on 2.0.

I didn't particularly care for it. There was no deception to it like a LP and to me just seemed like a regular SP.

But then again that was back when I must have had only oh 4 ish years of persistent TT playing experience. Perhaps my opinion would be different now being a little over 10 years in. IDK.

And I don't remember thinking "it has even more control than 802" or is even less spin sensitive or anything like that. All I remember is that it felt like a normal SP.

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The marketing/branding can make it even more confusing. Tibhar Extra Long, for example, is a medium pip.

Or an extra long short pip. Or an extra short long pip.

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Medium Pimples Penholder exist, I am one of them, my setup is
DHS W3020 (Cpen of W3010)
729 563 Mystery III 1.8mm 35deg
RPB 1.8mm Mercury II Soft

How I play is blocking with TPB and setting up a RPB attack. I will explain the difference of SP and MP, SP compared here is 802 Mystery III

For example, if my enemy give a topspin ball, an SP can hit through it quickly, an MP? Not really, It has a very noticeable slower speed and although hitting through spin is more possible as it is less sensitive to spin, a hitter may not like it.

But Blocking is the fun part, SP blocks (may) have sink effect but low deception, MP have little to none (actually I don't think mine have one) sink effect but the deceptiveness is good. So the enemy thinks it's backspin but it is very little to no spin! Then They stroke it too high or give a weak ball, which both can be attacked strongly.

Another think I notice is, MPs Pips do bend a bit, and SPs don't, they just inflate and deflate.

As for sponges, MPs may use harder sponges, amd SPs are not that good in harder sponges as it won't create more spin.

I am currently waiting to change my "old" 563 to a Keiler 2mm. I'll give results when compared to Waran.

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Iskandar