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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2021, 21:53 
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I want to state this in the strongest possible way. Stop confusing and misleading other choppers discussing about using short pips for chopping

There can be rare exceptions like (maybe only maybe like Hou Yingchao even that I am not sure)

Other than that any chopper who uses short pips is

1. Totally clueless about the very purpose of invention of long-pips and the reason why short pips still exist & must exist. And they do not understand the mechanics of how long pips work and they fall prey to slick advertising pitch to sell (short pips) with fraudulent claims of being able to do everything including and especially lots of spin reversal
and or
2. This is the most likely reason :- you probably were using long pips but were constantly humiliated & ridiculed day after day by majority player types who rule the table-tennis world (you know who I am talking about) & you crave so badly for their acceptance & approval, that you sadly believe that they will admire you & love you if you used short pips instead of the most hated & dreaded long pips or anti. I have news for you. They don't .

Don't mistake me. Nothing wrong with using short pips for the purpose it is intended for. Right at the table, always on top of the ball block and smash style play, such as penhold traditional hitters or modern penhold RPH players like Liu Guoliang or players like Mattias Falck with short pips on the forehand as primary rubber for hitting (and not for away from the table backhand for chopping, because you want to be approved & loved by the majority player styles who rule the table-tennis world).

So to summarize, short pips for chopping is a moronic fantasy and or psychotic approval seeking behavior. Please please end this. Please switch to improved high Aspect Ratio long-pips rubbers are now readily available.

Even Mima Ito, I am not 100% sure & I wonder if it is bad coaching for her to choose short pips on the backhand. Because recently Deng Yaping said that Mima Ito has no chance in Tokyo against Chinese despite home court advantage. Deng should know better than anyone. She used 755 long pips on the backhand to dominate. & Mima & Deng could be carbon copy of one another in how they look. I would eat my words if Mima wins Tokyo, but as Deng said it would be hard but since there will be only two Chinese , Mima may have like 25% chance(She has better chance of winning the mixed doubles). But Mima may improve her chances if she switched to some Dr.Neubauer type blocking long pips (like Deng), only against the first Chinese she meets to take out the first Chinses woman(it could backfire but I think Mima is capable of adjusting...this is not a cop out ...it is just that Chinese know Mima's game all too well and will be ready but a sudden switch to long pips by Mima may throw them off). If she can get to finals and faces another Chinese she can try long pips again (still use usual short pips against other opponents she expects to beat). I think Mima may have a better chance with this mix & match (short & long pips) strategy. But as it stands now she has about 25% chance with short pips. But this is highly unlikely because I have never heard of any Japanese player using Dr.Neubauer type pips , as it may be socially frowned upon in Japan


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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2021, 23:59 
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Maybe you want to see the youtube videos of Ito from the swedish open 2018 (1/4, 1/2 and final) where she beat three top chinese players.
"Right at the table, always on top of the ball block and smash style play" is exactly what she does. She plays the Fukuhara style more aggresively.
Of course there is no garanty for her to win in Tokio, because the chinese players are extremly strong in the moment (as shown at their trials).
But to change material would robb her her best weapon and ist furthermore unthinkable before the Games.

Greetings Claus


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 00:00 
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tobara wrote:
So to summarize, short pips for chopping is a moronic fantasy and or psychotic approval seeking behavior. Please please end this. Please switch to improved high Aspect Ratio long-pips rubbers are now readily available.

Idk if this is a troll post. Maybe the players who have chosen SP as their chopping rubber have different strokes and are able to get more from SP for their particular playstyle. Even among double inverted loopers in the top 20 you can see differences in stroke style and their choice inverted rubbers reflect that.
This sport needs variation even if it's an unorthodox playstyle that's "wrong."
Right now I'm exploring RPB options for my Jpen and i don't care if it's no the way it's supposed to be played.

tobara wrote:
Even Mima Ito, I am not 100% sure & I wonder if it is bad coaching for her to choose short pips on the backhand....

Yeah Idk if it's her equipment or just shot selection. She seems to have only 1 style stroke for backhand and it either wins the point immediately or goes long. A person who's a clone of Mima Ito is Sun Mingyang and she manages to put more balls on the table consistently.

mods, please don't ban this man. This is the most activity all TT forums have had lately and I'll take any TT-related entertainment right now


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 00:14 
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Mima does alright with her Sp and not sure she needs style advice from the forums.

I agree with you about short pips and chopping, they stink at it. Even inverted works better. I have never seen anyone intentionally playing as a chopper with SP though, so this seems to already be pretty widely known. Will you also post about people who counterloop far from the table with anti, in case anyone gets tempted to try that?

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 00:32 
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BRS wrote:
Mima does alright with her Sp and not sure she needs style advice from the forums.

In every sport fans not even players give advice to players. Which is indeed quite funny.
But keep in mind a great player does not necessarily make a great coach.
There had been great coaches in all sports who were lousy players themselves
I was mostly speculating on the possibility that Dr.Neubauer type blocking type long pips may be socially frowned upon in Japan (& in men's side in India & like Nigeria but not in Korea or China etc)
I was relating what Deng Yaping may be thinking .
It is like Mima is going to take advice from someone on a forum. But I do wonder if Mima's coach ever had her test block & hit long pips (lik Deng) in some strategic lower level test events with the big prize in mind.

I will be honest with you. I have no idea what Mima does because she is not human. I am in utter disbelief when someone beats her. (I don't know if many of you seen the video of Dima Ovtcharov not wanting to play her after hitting with her for a while. It looked like he may have hurt Mima's feelings. She kind of looked sad)


BRS wrote:
Will you also post about people who counterloop far from the table with anti, in case anyone gets tempted to try that?

ROTFL
You summed up short pips chopping in one sentence far better than I did


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 02:13 
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I understand your point of view.Anyone who bases their game on chopping normally uses LP.However, could you explain the , quote, : " There can be rare exceptions like (maybe only maybe like Hou Yingchao even that I am not sure) " idea behind this exception? thank you .


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 03:02 
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charmander defender wrote:
I understand your point of view.Anyone who bases their game on chopping normally uses LP.However, could you explain the , quote, : " There can be rare exceptions like (maybe only maybe like Hou Yingchao even that I am not sure) " idea behind this exception? thank you .


If you remember I think someone else discussed this exact issue about Hou with you (or someone else on this forum) a few weeks ago. Anyway here we go again.
Hou is amazing. He won the Chinese National title twice with a span of 20 years. I do not know what he used when he won the first time.

I would love to hear from Hou & his coach why he uses short pips & not long pips and I do not know if he used long pips twenty years ago and switched to short pips later. When I see him play against other top pro players, I have not seen him hit the ball even once with his short pips side.

Only things I can think of is that
1. He is big and strong and short pips is enough for him to generate enough spin and
2. He is good enough to get away using it & he is talented enough to win DESPITE his shortcoming (pun intended) . I can extend this argument to most top choppers male & female who use short pips.

But my point is that historically chopping is not the intended purpose of using short pips, after the invention & purpose of long pips. Most people who rave about the virtues of short pips for chopping have no clue about the very different mechanics & design of long-pips and how they work, compared to short pips or anti or inverted etc.
Why talk about Hou. Let us talk about 4 time World Champion Richard Bergmann. He was an amazing chopper with short pips (without sponge). Dick Miles can chop the crap out of the ball. My point is that , does that prove an average semi-pro & below players should play competitively using short pips primarily for chopping ?
I see 100s and 100s of posts in TT forums by former long pips amateur players (full of self-hate because they cannot win the respect and admiration of inverted loopers who control the table-tennis world) trying to switch to short pips for all the irrational psychotic reasons and that is what annoys me the most.
I fully understand & have no problem if you buy a $5 short pips and screw around with it in casual play pretending to be Hou Yingchaou or Ding Song.
I even understand using short pips in an all around mode with a little bit of chopping and even lobbing combined with block & smash but what I find it to be utterly ridiculous is trying to be a competitive full-time chopper at lower levels using short pips.
Again as I said the two reasons someone falls into short-pips chopping trap is
1. They do not understand historically the mechanics & design of long-pips
2. Extreme social peer pressure by two-winged smooth rubber hatemongers to pressure players to move or stay away from any pips & anti. But these long-pips / anti players incorrectly assume that the majority smooth rubber players will allow them into their elite inner circle fraternity. That is so sad.

I am therefore very convinced that all these short pips choppers (including pros) would be much better of using the now available high aspect ratio long pips. But due to fears of becoming extreme social outcasts they will never go there.


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 03:29 
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Ch3nM3ng wrote:
tobara wrote:
Please switch to improved high Aspect Ratio long-pips rubbers are now readily available.

Idk if this is a troll post.


Why is this a troll post ? Did you read my other post about my testing these High Aspect Ratio Long Pips & my getting ready to use them soon in official 2 star & 1 star USATT tournaments pretty soon, you will hopefully understand this is serious business & I am not trolling & I am seriously inviting all long pips players to dump their old useless long pips and move on to these new high aspect ratio rubbers for casual play, league play & tournament play.
In 2000 when I posted that I am entering a tournament using Feint Long 1, I was just a troll and had no guts to show up . But soon after I entered, I was threatened not to show up & actually had to call the police. When I showed up, I made the mistake of asking the tournament referee if I can use Feint Long 1 (was told No), but this time I won't be asking but will be taking a different approach. More details will be provided a week before the Tokyo Olympics.

BTW, I agree with you every single player is unique and plays every stroke differently. But from a coaching standpoint , my point is that it is sheer nonsense to suggest that a new player start with short pips for chopping. That is what I intended to convey.

Also I have no issue with all kinds of unorthodox styles but I do not know why you should be ashamed of being an RPB player. I am a natural shakehand player but wish I was born a penhold (RPB) player.

Ch3nM3ng wrote:
I'll take any TT-related entertainment right now

Thank you . Yes you are correct. I may be seemingly very controversial and sound like troll but if you look deep I am the indeed the most entertaining but most importantly the most thought-provoking yet humble poster (I would never have brought this up on my own) in all TT forums that ever lived.


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 12:55 
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This seems like another hubeer troll account


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2021, 06:06 
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I tried SP with dead, thin sponge for a significant period of time. I absolutely, positively DO agree with the OP.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2021, 23:14 
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There were some defenders with short pips. Most succesfull imho Ding Song with 802 (World Champion Team)


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2021, 09:37 
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Mima ito - absolute crushed Han Ying (LP). Just saying.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2021, 11:17 
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Wang Yang is a short pips modern defender and is currently the highest ranked defensive player on the international circuit. Well ahead of long pip players Ruwen Filus and Gionis Panagiotis


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2021, 18:08 
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jazzcomp wrote:
Mima ito - absolute crushed Han Ying (LP). Just saying.
Han Ying uses Spectol, short pips

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2021, 21:24 
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Def-attack wrote:
Han Ying uses Spectol, short pips
The latest short-pips-are-not-suited-for-chopping-threads are not about facts, I think it's more of a religious thing with tobara, hubeer et. al.

They could listen to the master himself, here he explains why he's chosen short pips:

?

But yeah, I remember - he would have been better off chopping with long pips. Those guys from CNT have no idea of table tennis...

:party: beware: irony :party:

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Last edited by 0x556c69 on 17 Aug 2021, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

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