OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 26 Oct 2020, 22:43


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 07 May 2007, 11:32 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32659
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 2044 times
Been thanked: 1344 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dr N Troublemaker OX
Review of Kokutaku 119 by LawOCG (thanks mate!):

Heres the first impressions review. Ill follow it up later on as well.

Physical Inspection

The 119 is quite a gem, the mold of the topsheet is of the absolute utmost quality. The pips are conical in shape and are extremely wide and short, I compared the 119 side by side with the 802-40 and they are both exactly the same in dimensions.
The sponge on the other hand I couldn't find out what variant it was (please fix up if I'm wrong Alex . Its yellow in appearance and the pores are very fine and consistent allround the sponge. The hardness is right smack around 40 degrees, after using 802-40 and Tango Ultra for some while its feels quite alot harder but in actual fact its more a biased feeling due to using soft pips for awhile.
Overall very happy with the quality of the sheet, The gluing between the sponge and topsheet is strong enough to cope with gluing without delaminating.

Hitting / Blocking

The first thing that struck me was the high throw of the rubber. After playing with tango Ultra for 2 weeks, everything popped up high and refused to land. After a good session of practice it was much easier to control the rubber. For hitting its extremely crisp and accurate. Almost any topspin ball coming at you can be hit with extreme consistency and accuracy. Blocking is exactly the same - very controlled and solid. This is a significant advantage in my books as this allows pinpoint placement.

note: The fact that the 119 is excellent for controlled hitting, It comes at a price. The 119 sacrifices lethality for consistency. For example when hitting flat against topspin with the Tango Ultra, the resulting ball was dead and contained varying amounts of backspin. Using the same stroke with the 119 produced no such ball. The trajectory of the resulting shot isn't as dangerous as that of the Tango Ultra. I think this has more to do with the stiffness of the topsheet more than anything else.

Hitting against backspin is slightly harder but still can be done consistently. The hard sponge and tremendous speed of the rubber makes this hard, but it can be managed with training.

Spinning

Probably not where this rubber shines, It isn't as grippy as other pips out there so in turn its not all that effective for looping or chopping. It still able to put the ball on the table, but the resulting spin isn't enough to cause any trouble. For chopping its also the same, The speed of the rubber makes it incredibly hard to chop with.

Pushing / Short-game

Quite excellent for the short game here. Almost anything that just pops long can be hit or looped at a fair pace. Pushing is very nice as the pips grip just enough to create your own varying amount of backspin. Flicking is also very easy as the the stiff topsheet allows you to skim across any spun balls and bring them over the net. The main advantage here is the control, for such a fast pip the control is excellent. I say this in direct comparison with my previous tango ultra, which was notorious for a lack of control.

Conclusion

Overall its a high speed/control pip. It isn't as weird as the softer pips out there but in return its incredibly stable and is very consistent. If I could change a few things, I would soften the topsheet a tad and get a softer sponge. That would dramatically increase the the spin of the rubber while providing adequate speed. To sum it up, its definitely for the control orientated SP hitters out there that play a quick killing game. For those that use SP's who are looking for high effect and spin, this isnt the best rubber suited to that.

Well thats my first diagnosis on it hope it helps to explain a few things.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 


 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2007, 19:05 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32659
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 2044 times
Been thanked: 1344 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dr N Troublemaker OX
We decided to order some of this rubber in, this time on softer 35-38deg sponge. Forgot all about it till we got it in :wink:

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 19:35 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 22:05
Posts: 755
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
haggisv wrote:
For those that use SP's who are looking for high effect and spin, this isnt the best rubber suited to that.


nice review haggisv ;)

i am wondering about these high spin short pip rubbers, because if you impart more spin and add a litle higher throw, then the rubber is behaving more like inverted. such rubber is DHS 652. but the whole philosophy behind short pips seems to be to provide rubber that is great for hitting through, and if you make rubber with larger base pips and denser pips, thus providing better spin ability, then the whole rubber loses some on its primary quality, being great rubber for hitting through because of its lower sensitivity to incoming spin. i understand that it would be nice to have short pips which has it all, but this is hardly the case. and it is logical that hit-through quality (together with effective block) is most important for short pip


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 20:15 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 13:44
Posts: 2907
Location: Houston
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 149 times
friendship wrote:
but the whole philosophy behind short pips seems to be to provide rubber that is great for hitting through, and if you make rubber with larger base pips and denser pips, thus providing better spin ability, then the whole rubber loses some on its primary quality


A lot of people think that with short pips you should just flat hit everything. In practice I have only seen a few players who actually play that way and they are all people who have used them pretty much since they started playing. IMHO short pips are a lot more dangerous when the opponent is forced to respect your ability to occasionally hit with dangerous topspin and has to cope with unpredictability. Also, having a bit more spin in the rubber is more forgiving if you have any lapses from perfect short pips technique.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2010, 05:04 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 01:37
Posts: 1685
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 239 times
Good review, Haggisv! Sounds like a good backhand rubber for safe blocking and counter-driving until forehand attack can take over; especially the high throw would be useful for this. Maybe not a rubber for forehand attack. But the softer sponge might change things quite a lot!

_________________
Without opponent, no match.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2010, 20:31 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 22:05
Posts: 755
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
I just received 119 on 1,5 mm sponge. unfortunately I am still slightly ill, not sure if I will have chance to try it today, but if not, then next week for sure...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2010, 17:46 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 22:05
Posts: 755
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
I finally got to play with 119...didn't much test it for different shots though. but I agree with everything said. strength of this rubber is hitting consistency. throw is little higher than, say, butterfly challenger, but little lower than DHS 652. feel is little harder than challenger but little softer than 652. no big spin for SP. regarding control of placement and insensitivity to incoming spin while blocking, I would say that challenger might be little better, and old butterfly impartial (my favourite SP) is certainly better. although nothing wrong with 119. same as haggi I agree that little softer sponge might do even better. overall, solid SP but not special


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 May 2011, 03:36 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Dec 2010, 15:59
Posts: 70
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
How does this rubber compare to 802-40 on standard sponge?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011, 08:36 
Offline
The Pied Pipper
The Pied Pipper
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 23:16
Posts: 1325
Location: Somewhere out there!
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 34 times
Has anyone used the improved version with the 38* soft sponge and is it true that this is slightly tacky, so could/does it play like a tacky rubber?

_________________
_________________
Think, before you drink, before you write!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2011, 08:29 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 27 Mar 2008, 00:23
Posts: 797
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Where would you put this in the list of short pips out? Under Classic short pips out or Grippy short pips out?


Ian

_________________
Blade: Giant Dragon Kris: FH: Friengship 729 Judo (red) 2.0 BH: Feint Long 3 (black) 1.3
Blade: Alfa Pro : FH: Friendship Judo (red) 2.0 BH TSP Curl P-1r (black) 1.4


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2011, 04:06 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 22:05
Posts: 755
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
sorry ian...classic SP


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group