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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 10:39 
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I seem to see a lot less of these compared to about 20 years ago, and I wonder why?

It is because the new generation rubbers no longer need a high toss, or are there other reasons?

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 10:57 
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My first post was about a girl with an extremely high toss serve, Wang Hui. That was in the 90's. Now she is a vet on the japanese pro ciircuit and she uses a modified version with a lower toss. I think it's the service rule because when you toss vertically, you may carry the ball and get called for that... :doh:

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 11:20 
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I think it has something to do with the no hidden serve rule. I have never played in that era so I'm making assumption. I think that in the 'old days' you could get away with a serve that was a bit longer than intended because the receiver couldn't properly see the motion and therefore not exactly know what the serve was. I think it's easier to hide the serve with your non playing arm when you have a longer and more fluid motion. You need a bit more time to put that arm in place. Therefore a higher toss is needed.

Nowadays the serve must be visible. A quick wrist motion is better so the opponent has less time to see your arm move and therefore still has to guess something. A quick and short action is much better in that case, hence the lower throw.

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 14:49 
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I don't think it has anything to do with rubber changes as the Chinese used to do high toss serves with tacky PF4 (Guo for eg) and also the sponge doesnt matter as much because the focus is on fine brushing. CSTT could be on the right track regarding a quick and short action giving the opponent less time to react now that we can't hide the ball with the free arm. Samsonov still does high toss serves but they look more predictable than the low throw pendulum/reverse-pendulum guys.


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 15:09 
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The ball from a high toss serve tends to come down faster, which would allow you to generate more speed and potentially more spin as the ball is already traveling faster on contact.

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 15:19 
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True, but a reasonable player can generate enough spin from a lower toss. Deception and limiting an opponents reaction time are the main factors for an effective serve and now, with the changes to the service rules, perhaps high toss serves aren't as viable. I still do them occasionally but without being able to cover them they are not as effective as they were previously.


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 15:23 
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carbonman wrote:
True, but a reasonable player can generate enough spin from a lower toss.

Yes, and with the latest generation of rubbers, even 'unreasonable players' can generate enough spin, so they would not need it either. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 15:24 
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Hmmmm...no comment! :lol:


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 16:54 
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Some short pips players still use high toss

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 17:45 
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Its because umpires let players trow the ball backwards allowing for max spin with the bat coming at the opposite direction............ just joking
a few of the Japanese ladies trow high

maybe the lights are better now and they can't see after trowing :sun:

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 19:46 
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Maybe getting maximum spin is being recognised as being much less important than disguising which spin is on the ball. Very slight topspin misjudged to be some level of backspin can have disastrous results for the receiver. With a lower toss there is more control over the serving process in coordinating all the moving parts...and we know the less moving parts there are the less likely things are to break :lol: And as others have said, with a lower toss there is less time to figure out what deception may have taken place. Perhaps in the modern era coaches have realised absolute levels of spin on serve don't win points, but fooling the opponent by the relativity of their judgement of the spin being wrong can be far more deadly.

Oh and Rodderz, learn how to spell...its throw, not trow!! :P :lol:

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013, 20:03 
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Interesting analysis... Makes sense.

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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2013, 17:38 
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I used to see high toss serves before. Maybe the trend today is the Zhang Jike serve.

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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2013, 18:07 
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If we throw high and powerful lights are fitted in the ceilling (very common nowadays), there will be some visibility problem watching the ball.

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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2013, 18:16 
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I just really like to see them... it adds just a little more flare to our sport. :rock:

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