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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2018, 21:59 
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Blade: DHS PG7 Penhold
FH: Impartial XB 1.7mm
BH: N/A
What are your thoughts on spin short pips vs. balanced short pips (but not normal pips)?

I'm currently using Butterfly Impartial XB 1.7mm (which is a balanced type for straight up lifting/soft-looping and then straight forward hitting/smashing/blocking/countering) on my forehand as a penholder and my game currently is gravitating towards a close to mid-distance table game using predominantly RPB to pressure the opponent and then close out points with a direct smash using my forehand pips.

My future set-up (after Christmas) is looking to be Short Pips of forehand and Inverted on backhand (looking at using Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm on backhand).

After spending 3 to 4 years struggling with inverted and then switching to pips I don't plan on going back to inverted but i've encountered some challenges using balanced pips and i'm considering switching to a spin pip based rubber for the forehand. Here is why:

1. My forehand strokes tend to favor a more linear, horizontal stroke when I want to close out points. My racket angle is more straight on with the ball so Butterfly Impartial XB 1.7mm has been a blessing as I can smash balls to close out points. Unfortunately, I don't have as many gears as I do with inverted rubber (obviously).

2. Playing against males who are stronger and more well trained than the average player tend to force me back to mid-distance where the balanced short pips tends to struggle and I was considering getting a spin pip like Butterfly Impartial XS 1.7mm or 1.9mm so I can stay in the rally to some extent at mid-distance.

3. I have a habit of playing my forehand like an inverted rubber sheet since I have developed many habits from practice and playing so maybe a spin pip rubber would be an 'okay' fit.

Overall, I believe that potentially switching to a spin based pip might allow me to survive in rallies that are held at mid-distance and I can still do similar things with my penhold pushes, flicks, blocks, and smashes (but they would all be influenced by spin more). I think that the switch for spin potential (at close and mid-distance) with spin pips will be beneficial as I can easily adjust my stroke to accommodate for spin when smashing, countering, pushing, flicking, and blocking.

Let me know what you guys think! (I know that this was lengthy lol)


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2018, 22:30 
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I'm using moristo SP (spinny pip) on my backhand. It's not effective from mid-distance. I've only played SP for six months, but imo if you can't stay close to the table then you can't play SP. So fwiw my advice would be to use whichever SP maximizes your close-in game, and try to be so quick that you never go back.

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2018, 22:35 
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Blade: DHS PG7 Penhold
FH: Impartial XB 1.7mm
BH: N/A
BRS wrote:
I'm using moristo SP (spinny pip) on my backhand. It's not effective from mid-distance. I've only played SP for six months, but imo if you can't stay close to the table then you can't play SP. So fwiw my advice would be to use whichever SP maximizes your close-in game, and try to be so quick that you never go back.


Okay, thank you sir!

I'm trying my best to up my speed and adjust to the SP playing style as best I can sir and I plan on training more to adjust to that style. I will keep your advice in mind.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2018, 01:32 
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I whole-heartly recommend spin-leaning pips regardless of distance from table. Actually thinking about the Impartial XS once my current is worn out.

Nevertheless, I second BRS regarding forcing yourself to stay close. While you can loop mid-distance with spinny pips, you will always be at an intrinsic disadvantage. A fast block close to the table will take you much further than any kind of short pips loop.

As a rule, never back away so much that you can't reach the table with your racket while leaning in.

Also, not to be offensive, but I found the PG7 to be a bit too flexible for a 7-ply. Before changing rubbers, I recommend you try something a little more solid. Samsonov force, clippers etc are better suited for pips.


Last edited by lasta on 15 Nov 2018, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2018, 01:36 
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Blade: DHS PG7 Penhold
FH: Impartial XB 1.7mm
BH: N/A
lasta wrote:
I whole-heartly recommend spin-leaning pips regardless of distance from table. Actually thinking about the Impartial XS once my current is worn out.

Nevertheless, I second BRS regarding forcing yourself to stay close. While you can loop mid-distance with spinny pips, you will always be at an intrisic disadvantage. A fast block close to the table will take you much further than any kind of short pips loop.

As a rule, never back away so much that you can't reach the table with your racket while leaning in.


You're right.

I like that rule lol

Thank you for your input sir!

(I love the Impartial XB sheet and Impartial XS must feel like a dream haha)


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2019, 01:07 
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Blade: Dr neubauer firewall plus
FH: Spinlord waren
BH: Tibhar grass dtecs
lasta wrote:
I whole-heartly recommend spin-leaning pips regardless of distance from table. Actually thinking about the Impartial XS once my current is worn out.

Nevertheless, I second BRS regarding forcing yourself to stay close. While you can loop mid-distance with spinny pips, you will always be at an intrinsic disadvantage. A fast block close to the table will take you much further than any kind of short pips loop.

As a rule, never back away so much that you can't reach the table with your racket while leaning in.

Also, not to be offensive, but I found the PG7 to be a bit too flexible for a 7-ply. Before changing rubbers, I recommend you try something a little more solid. Samsonov force, clippers etc are better suited for pips.

I have recently started using sort pip long pip combo on a Dr Neubauer firewall plus blade which is balsa and quite thick but I am now told balsa is wrong for short pips although it seems to work quite well for me with Spinlord Waran on fore hand and long pips backhand
I’m also thinking of trying short pips on both sides of my other firewall plus blade one side a spiny type pip I have a sheet of tsp spin pips which I would use on forehand and a more traditional type of non spin short pip for backhand to receive service more
Is there a more apple type of blade I should use for this type of set up or is the Dr Neubauer Firewall ok

Many thanks for any advice


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2019, 02:52 
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I used a Firewall blade for many years with short and long pips and it worked very well. I won a number of tournaments with that blade including the US Open over 60 age group some years ago. I do think that the new plastic balls have made the choice of blades more difficult for players using short/long. You might want to consider one of the new Re-impact blades. Best of luck.

Coach McAfee

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2019, 13:21 
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Monolith wrote:
lasta wrote:
I whole-heartly recommend spin-leaning pips regardless of distance from table. Actually thinking about the Impartial XS once my current is worn out.

Nevertheless, I second BRS regarding forcing yourself to stay close. While you can loop mid-distance with spinny pips, you will always be at an intrinsic disadvantage. A fast block close to the table will take you much further than any kind of short pips loop.

As a rule, never back away so much that you can't reach the table with your racket while leaning in.

Also, not to be offensive, but I found the PG7 to be a bit too flexible for a 7-ply. Before changing rubbers, I recommend you try something a little more solid. Samsonov force, clippers etc are better suited for pips.

I have recently started using sort pip long pip combo on a Dr Neubauer firewall plus blade which is balsa and quite thick but I am now told balsa is wrong for short pips although it seems to work quite well for me with Spinlord Waran on fore hand and long pips backhand
I’m also thinking of trying short pips on both sides of my other firewall plus blade one side a spiny type pip I have a sheet of tsp spin pips which I would use on forehand and a more traditional type of non spin short pip for backhand to receive service more
Is there a more apple type of blade I should use for this type of set up or is the Dr Neubauer Firewall ok

Many thanks for any advice


Hi Monolith,

I'm not familiar with that beast of a firewall but I tend to agree with the consensus and "soft" core blades are not my preference.

I never tried balsa, but the closest thing I have is a thick kiri core Adidas c300 and I did not like it for short pips. Nice crack and trampoline feel during high impact, but otherwise too "hollow", too soft, and feedback is muffled. Furthermore, the TSP will have a slightly softer topsheet (not sponge) than your Waran so the mushy, muffled feeling will be even more amplified. Sorry to rain down on your gear, but just my experience and preferences go the opposite direction.

I've been trying a lot of blades recently, a couple of observations if you are open to a new direction:

Classic 7-plies (6.6mm+ limba ayous ala clipper, samsonov force, challenge speed, SK7, andro timber etc): Perfect sweetspot! No matter how much others you try, these blades simply feel good. Medium feel, not too hard, but dense on hard impact and plenty of reinforced feeling. Balanced.

Exotic hardwood 7-plies (ebenholz, gatien absolum, ebony-surface all woods): sharp, clear feedback. Crisp on low impact shots. However usually made thinner than softwood 7-plies due to excessive weight of surface material and I believe the trade-off makes them less efficient, less stiff overall. Not as bouncy as classic 7-plies. Also a unique feature is a clear inflection point on hard impact (max effort smashes) whereby the top layer starts to deform and starts to feel softer (and perceived hollow) the harder you hit. Fast on flicks, great blocking feel, but lacks finishing power or at least feels that way. Heavy.

Harder 7-plies (Boll W7, Clearfield): Thick like classic 7-plies, but with Koto instead of limba. Mine is still in transit, but I hope it will be a nice middle ground between classic and exotic hardwoods. Lets see if a semi-hard top layer with adequate center support will avoid that dreaded hollow feeling.

Antique woods (DHS 08, and pretty much all 70s/80s Chinese blades): basswood and meranti mix. Softer basswood surface and medial layers, harder meranti core layers. Extremely heavy due to use of hardwood cores but the gradual transition from medium-soft to hard gives excellent hand feel. Not as bouncy on low impact, but pretty much unlimited power on full effort shots. Heavy as in 100g+, sometimes 120g+, so be aware. Excellent and substantial feel. I have 2 that I use single-sided penhold with, but I'm guessing that's not an option for you :lol: .

Composites: as you can see above, I value hand feel, impact sensation, feedback etc. Composites are fast, stiff, hard and light. Sounds perfect for short pips, but composites also unanimously have "vibration dampening" characteristics. None of them feel as clear and crisp as all woods. There is a dreaded "dead middle zone" where moderate impact (80-90% effort) shots are dulled and feels like you are not hitting hard enough. But if you don't care about hand feel, these blades are very "efficient".

I recommend starting with the classic 7-plies. Pick the cheapest one as compositions are pretty much the same across brands.


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