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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2019, 04:42 
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Beginner here. I noticed that in pro games services are mostly returned by pushing. The following video shows how Michael Maze returns a super spinny serve by simply stretching out his forehand:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgn_vT7vd ... dex=7&t=0s Around 1:30

If I attempt to do that, the ball just flies out of the table. It looks like he is just passively holding the racket but how would this negate the incoming spin? I guess I don‘t understand how a push works but this looks like he is applying zero spin, there is no wrist movement.

If I receive sidespin serves on my BH is extremely angle my bat and just hold it, or I try to flick. On my FH however this doesnt work....


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2019, 04:50 
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I guess that's exactly what EmRatThich is trying to explain in that video, isn't he?


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2019, 04:58 
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ziv wrote:
I guess that's exactly what EmRatThich is trying to explain in that video, isn't he?


And I try to replicate it but it just won‘t work.


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2019, 05:52 
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Ryoji wrote:
ziv wrote:
I guess that's exactly what EmRatThich is trying to explain in that video, isn't he?

And I try to replicate it but it just won‘t work.

The answer to this may be very simple and given in the same video at 1:50:
"Pro players train 6-7 hours a day", and you don't.
How many times have you tried to implement the return? Do you have someone who repeatedly serves you short sidespin serves in training? Really, the key may be just repeating the same stroke again and again until you master it.


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2019, 05:55 
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No, it won't work "right out of the box". As said in the video, "Pro players train this for 6-7 h daily until they get it".

That is because it is difficult. As for the 3rd advice given: Both reading the spin to determine the spin axis and finding a stroke which meets that axis are difficult tasks. You need to manage to do both within a split second, AND heed tips 1 and 2 (make sure you hit the ball rising, and in the low energy part of your bat).

So watch the video once more, then practice. Then practice some more. Rest, and practice even more. Repeat tomorrow...


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2019, 03:14 
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Ryoji wrote:
Beginner here. I noticed that in pro games services are mostly returned by pushing. The following video shows how Michael Maze returns a super spinny serve by simply stretching out his forehand:


I'd disagree. Most attacking players at the top level try to attack serves, using a flick (often a banana flick). However....

Quote:


Around 1:30

If I attempt to do that, the ball just flies out of the table. It looks like he is just passively holding the racket but how would this negate the incoming spin? I guess I don‘t understand how a push works but this looks like he is applying zero spin, there is no wrist movement.

If I receive sidespin serves on my BH is extremely angle my bat and just hold it, or I try to flick. On my FH however this doesnt work....


Correction: this video is SPECIFICALLY for returning short sidespin serves short. I bet if he wanted to a player of his caliber could also easily forehand-flick the ball.

It's actually pretty obvious what's going on at around 1:30... the serve is (from Maze's point of view - note that both he and the opponent are left handers) a right-to-left sidespin serve (anticlockwise as seen from above) with a small amount of backspin. If one holds the bat vertical when receiving, upon hitting the bat, the ball would sling off to the left and down into the net. So he holds the bat slightly open, and angled to direct the ball in the opposite direction (to his right). A slightly loose grip and wrist would also help, I think, especially in the "short" department. If you're a right hander you'd be receiving this serve on your backhand, and you'd do the same thing.. slant the bat so that it'd send the ball to the right if the sidespin is going to send it to the left. This is actually pretty easy to do naturally - imagine how much more difficult it would be if the sidespin were in the other direction - holding the bat at the correct angle would require quite a bit more contortion of the elbow and wrist.

The problem beginners have is 1) figuring out which way the sidespin is going to make the ball bounce when it hits your racket and 2) recognizing whether there is topspin or backspin on the ball. 1) is considerably easier than 2), and can be learned very quickly. You'll never see a top player miss the table because he/she didn't know which way the sidespin was going. However you actually do see top players dump a serve into the net or return it long because they misread the top/back spin. I've seen Ma Long do it on occasion.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2019, 13:17 
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Maze is going against the spin, you can see the bat moving slightly to the side, but his returns are quite high in this video, probably because it's just a demonstration. It works because he is contacting the ball closer to its side, thinly and early, with soft hands.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2019, 13:48 
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I suppose it could be put that way - going against the spin, as opposed to moving the racket with the spin. It doesn't actually "negate the spin" (as per the title of the thread), it actually sends back the opposite spin.. in this case the incoming ball has anticlockwise (as seen from above) sidespin, with backspin, it comes off Maze's racket spinning clockwise, with some backspin. Sort of like a mirror.

Going "with the spin" would require doing a fast "strawberry" flick - the ball coming back would still be turning anticlockwise and would now have some topspin. This is a MUCH more difficult shot to execute and would be difficult to keep short - in fact you'd want to send the ball back long and with speed.

Iskandar


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