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 Post subject: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 17:22 
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Hello all,

Need your advice on this situation :

I started playing table tennis around 1 year back and my current playing style is transitioning from defensive (choping) to offensive. I always try to loop a backspin ball, however I use a slow Chinese rubber (DHS Hurricane) and if I concentrate more on power than spin, I sometime overhit the ball and my shots aren’t consistent
After a week of coaching, I was told to concentrate more on spin than speed and my coach has told me to try to spin the ball so much that it should pitch just after the net. On doing this I notice the ball has become more spinnier but very slow and some opponents read the spin early and smash it perfectly back.
I’m not sure if I should continue this strategy or going back to smash looping. My coach says I will loose some games for 3 months but its worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 02:36 
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I'd follow your coach's instructions. After all he IS your coach, and if you're not going to listen to your coach, why have a coach? I'm pretty sure he does NOT intend you to slow-loop balls close to the net for the rest of your life - :lol: he's trying to teach you something. And that something is about how to consistently spin the ball, hard. Eventually you will be able to use this skill to loop balls harder and harder and have them land near the baseline. The FASTEST shots also have tremendous amounts of topspin on them - it's the topspin that causes the ball to dip towards the table.

By the way, H3 is a DIFFICULT rubber for beginners to use, because it's so slow. On the other hand, if your coach says use H3, use H3.. :lol:

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2019, 02:31 
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Yes, it's the same thing I teach new people!

They don't know how to actually SPIN the ball, so I have them focus on slow brush loops -- emphasizing SPIN before speed/power. Once they make the mental connection of what spinning/brushing the ball actually feels like, they can ramp up the power. You can brush on top of the ball against a top spin or dead ball and send it back loaded with top spin, along with the speed of a rocket! But if you never learn to brush/spin the ball, then this shot is near impossible to execute, especially with any degree of consistency.

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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2019, 05:22 
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I think you should continue the same path.

Focus on getting more racket speed, use your whole body, not just arm/wrist snap, start lower, brush.

Speed will come naturally when you are brushing faster.

If they are counterattacking very easily, it means you are so worried about the backspin you are looping with an excessive arc. Take more chances, brush hard but keep the ball low (a few inches above net tops).

I find a very low spinny loop to be one of the harder shots to deal with.

BTW, H3 is not slow. With good racket speed and correct brushing, the top end is faster than most tensors.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2019, 05:29 
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Oh, I forgot. Brush looping is only for low backspin balls. For high bounces, you should smash the first chance you get. You need both sets of skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2019, 22:06 
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Thanks for all the comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2019, 10:53 
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lasta wrote:
BTW, H3 is not slow. With good racket speed and correct brushing, the top end is faster than most tensors.


The top end is, yes, I agree. But what does it take to achieve that top end, or even anything moderately fast? It's probably beyond most beginners. Probably better to use, say, 729FX, or Big Dipper, or AK47. Move to H3 later.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2019, 18:44 
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iskandar taib wrote:
lasta wrote:
BTW, H3 is not slow. With good racket speed and correct brushing, the top end is faster than most tensors.


The top end is, yes, I agree. But what does it take to achieve that top end, or even anything moderately fast? It's probably beyond most beginners. Probably better to use, say, 729FX, or Big Dipper, or AK47. Move to H3 later.

Iskandar


I feel its the other way around. H3 penalizes you for not being able to produce a full stroke along with using your body. If someone is really interested to learn and is fit, I believe H3 will prove more beneficial in the long run. On the other with soft rubbers you can get along the game with short strokes as the rubber does most of the work and you kind of get used to shorter strokes and cannot improve your level beyond a limit


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2019, 02:47 
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It depends. If you're rated about 1700 to 1800, are on the way up and are being coached, maybe H3 will work. Even at this level I don't think you'd get anywhere near the full potential speed of the rubber. If you're a 1500 level player you're handicapping yourself because the rubber's too slow. I suppose you could compensate with a faster blade to some extent. And with untreated H3 you'll never achieve the top end that the professional Chinese players achieve because they (according to Brett) boost their H3 to "insane levels". Note that I suggested 729FX, Big Dipper and AK47, not Tenergy or Rasanter. You still need to put effort into the strokes with those.

On the other hand.. for the perpetual older 1000 level players who push all the time.. maybe H3 would work for them since you get more control and you aren't interested in hitting the ball that hard... I've been told it works great for chopping, too.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2019, 07:30 
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I took a little break (4 yrs) from tabletennis and just came back a few months ago just to find out that the balls have completely changed! (lol)

I find with the new balls, slow loops get punished really hard by an active block or just a smash. Having said that, don't give up! I'm sure once you master slow looping, fast looping is around the corner :)


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2019, 16:05 
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Yeah, what has recently come into prominence in the last couple years is fast looping close to the table, right off the bounce. Of course, the Japanese men and a lot of the women players have already been doing this for years, but now lots of people who used to stand back one step are taking balls at the top of the bounce or before. I actually enjoy the new ball, especially the newest ABS seamed ones, I feel I'm playing better than I ever did in the past.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2019, 16:09 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Yeah, what has recently come into prominence in the last couple years is fast looping close to the table, right off the bounce. Of course, the Japanese men and a lot of the women players have already been doing this for years, but now lots of people who used to stand back one step are taking balls at the top of the bounce or before. I actually enjoy the new ball, especially the newest ABS seamed ones, I feel I'm playing better than I ever did in the past.

Iskandar


Your are playing better because you played longer :lol: . Not because of the new ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 08:57 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Yeah, what has recently come into prominence in the last couple years is fast looping close to the table, right off the bounce. Of course, the Japanese men and a lot of the women players have already been doing this for years, but now lots of people who used to stand back one step are taking balls at the top of the bounce or before. I actually enjoy the new ball, especially the newest ABS seamed ones, I feel I'm playing better than I ever did in the past.

Iskandar


I have to say, the new ball has improved my game too :)


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 17:22 
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The slow spinny loops are easier as they have a large margin for error. They are also good for developing a good brushing stroke on the ball. Once you’re good at brushing, you can start brushing closer to the top of the ball with higher racquet speed to lower the trajectory and keep it spinny.

Some opponents will try a quick counter right off the bounce (I am one), but this shot requires perfect timing, being in a good position and reading the amount of spin. It is not an easy shot, and you should be able to throw off the counter by moving the ball around the table and varying the depth of your loop (closer to the edge is harder to counter).

IMO hurricane style rubber is not for players just developing a loop. I like a softer sponge that relies on the ball sinking in to grip well. Allows more margin for error for the developing player.


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 Post subject: Re: Spin or Speed
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2019, 02:58 
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Actually, the old, Dell Sweeris style slow loops where you just brush the ball are bloody difficult. They're spinny as heck, the ball hits the table and bounces forward, and they were almost impossible to return (at least, they were when the ball was 38mm in diameter). Certain people started using these in the late 60s/early 70s and it led to the invention and common use of anti. People would try to return balls short - if the ball went over the edge of the table the other guy would loop it.

Iskandar


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