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| The use of fingers https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=42562 |
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| Author: | moming [ 22 Aug 2024, 18:21 ] |
| Post subject: | The use of fingers |
Back when I learnt table tennis, which was eons ago, I was taught to use the wrist to make fine adjustments, generate spin on serves etc. However, upon getting lessons from younger coaches in China. I was told that these days, the focus in on fingers, mainly the thumb and the index finger. All the fine motions, like generating spin in a serve, and adding a bit of brushing in loops and directing the ball during attacks, and of course over the table pushing. All, should be led by the thumb and the fingers, and not from the wrist itself. Of course finally the wrist will move, no doubt, but those motions should be led by index finger and thumb. What do you guys think? |
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| Author: | igorponger [ 23 Aug 2024, 19:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
LIVE LONG and LEARN AS LONG. Shakehand advanced grip as taught by China renowned coach. Few if any coach of Еuropa/ Аmerica are being aware of the advanced grip. Truls Moregard has recently yielded off olympic gold to Zhendong as being unaware of the excellences innate in the shakehand progressive grip. Sorry for him sincerely. https://youtu.be/6w67a5XdAh0 Attachment: opfyipOcRlav6blejcifraoEP4x3C1Sn3Nd76Ya_F2gVw81JTTUtlI-UZiwvVAHszaNImc-ONHfbC8S1i8FpSJC0.jpg [ 240.36 KiB | Viewed 1474 times ] |
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| Author: | boz [ 23 Aug 2024, 22:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
I find the way the bat is held makes huge differences in consistency, spin and speed. Especially the between choking the neck of the blade or holding it loosely. One is control and speed especially in more hitting drives and the other is so much more the ultimate sort of pendulum possible... just hard to get it right. I like watching the pros index finger ride up to almost the middle of the back when FH smashing etc. I sometimes even let the middle finger find its way up there for more solid support behind the ball. |
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| Author: | moming [ 24 Aug 2024, 12:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
i will try the advanced grip and see if it helps the use of fingers. But beware, the video was from some years ago, maybe back then wrist motion was still in vogue. but my coach in China told me, intentionally using the wrist will lead to tennis elbow like injuries. using fingers to lead the motion will not. I don't know if it is true, but beware. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 26 Aug 2024, 19:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
If you watch most service coaching videos, they'll tell you to change your grip for the serve. You're supposed to let go of the handle, and just hold the blade between the forefinger and thumb. This allows much greater movement of the wrist, because the handle isn't getting in the way. Yes, it does mean you have to change your grip right after the serve. And it does mean that most of the movement actually comes from the wrist. Look up Brett Clarke's old videos on serving - apparently the trick to achieving really strong spins is the whipping action you get when you use a loose wrist and suddenly stop the arm's movement. There's that humongously long thread on technique, I forget what it's called, there was quite a bit of discussion about this some 5 or so years ago. I can attest from first-hand experience that Brett's serves have so much spin I couldn't lift his backspin serves over the net - and I couldn't tell his backspin from his topspin serves. Do I change my grip for the serve? No, but then again I don't play at a high level and neither do the people I play against. I guess changing the grip is a complication, I'd do it if I actually had the inclination to put some practice in. Iskandar |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 26 Aug 2024, 20:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
I found the video I've been thinking of. In the context of this thread, watch how he holds the bat during the serve. Maybe this is what your Chinese coach was talking about when mentioning thumb and forefinger. There's a bunch more videos like this, but I think you have to join the TT Edge website to get access to them. There are a few more on YouTube (check his channel). Someone from Vietnam has also been re-posting some of his older videos, I don't know if he's got Brett's permission to do this so I'm not going to post any links. Iskandar |
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| Author: | moming [ 27 Aug 2024, 23:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
If you ask me, finally, a lot of the spin comes from the wrist moving, no doubt at all. But what caught my attention is the Chinese coach telling me not to focus on the wrist moving (the wrist will move, yes) but have your focus on the fingers, or it will be very easy to get tennis elbow. So, it's something to think about, i don't want injuries. I will try to practice with fingers leading the wrist. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 28 Aug 2024, 14:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
From what I understand, it's not about making the wrist move with your hand muscles, it's about generating the very fast movement of the wrist by leaving the wrist loose and having the arm stop suddenly at the right moment. It takes constant practice to do this. Iskandar |
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| Author: | ckwsp101 [ 30 Aug 2024, 01:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
iskandar taib wrote: From what I understand, it's not about making the wrist move with your hand muscles, it's about generating the very fast movement of the wrist by leaving the wrist loose and having the arm stop suddenly at the right moment. It takes constant practice to do this. Iskandar Transcript of past presentation again online https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads ... rt-One.pdf https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads ... rt-Two.pdf |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 30 Aug 2024, 18:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
Thanks for posting those. They don't actually pertain to the serve, though, but to the loop. And I'm not sure how you'd actually go about practicing/implementing what was written. Iskandar |
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| Author: | ckwsp101 [ 31 Aug 2024, 02:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
iskandar taib wrote: Thanks for posting those. They don't actually pertain to the serve, though, but to the loop. And I'm not sure how you'd actually go about practicing/implementing what was written. Iskandar The translation maybe based on 2016 presentation to European national level coaches. |
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| Author: | moming [ 01 Sep 2024, 01:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
iskandar taib wrote: Thanks for posting those. They don't actually pertain to the serve, though, but to the loop. And I'm not sure how you'd actually go about practicing/implementing what was written. Iskandar can practice multi ball with partner, or a robot |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 02 Sep 2024, 16:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The use of fingers |
This is how it begins: Quote: “The student who uses the arm to play is an elementary student; the one who uses the elbow is a middle school student; the one who uses the forearm to play is a college student; the one who uses the wrist to play is a postgraduate. Finally, the one who uses the fingers to play is a doctorate.” From this I'd gather that international class players are the ones who use fingers. Would it be appropriate to try to use the fingers at the club player level, or would it get in the way of learning lower-level skills if you're a lower level player? The rest of it gives several scenarios where a high-level player would use a loose wrist and fingers to do certain shots. But it doesn't give specific instructions about what to do with the fingers. I suppose this would make sense if it was a presentation given to international-level coaches, they know a lot of stuff we don't, and would be capable of translating this into practice, but... Iskandar |
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