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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 00:00 
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I'm so confused about this topic and I want to forget what I know and get info from the veterans. In terms of speed, spin, , control, consistency, short, medium and long distance from the table, attacking topspin and backspin and OVERALL which do you think is better?

Also I want to ask if the rubber should fit the style? European = Euro/Jap Rubbers? The Chinese use European rubbers on their backhand and yet they use Chinese BH Loop. Care to explain?

POP Quiz:
What looping style does Ethan Jin have?

Ethan Jin Videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAm13pBW ... annel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kP4gX8b ... annel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdaOIvY- ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYlDr4_G ... re=related

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Last edited by makai on 15 Jul 2009, 23:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 14:09 
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I am not sure there is that much of a difference now, maybe there was one in the 90s and 80s. To me, guys like Chen Qi and Ma Long look pretty much the same as their European counterparts. Maybe there is some slight difference owing to Chinese preference for harder and tackier sponges. Or maybe I am just missing something.

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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2009, 23:53 
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Baal, just curios. Who are Chen Qi and Ma Long's counterparts?

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 08:02 
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Pretty much every young European looper I would say; Boll, Suss, Otcharov for example; those guys seem to me to have quite similar looping strokes to Ma Long. The Chinese are usually just a bit better, probably it is the quality and intensity of training from a young age and the enormous number of players in China from which to choose. I don't see big technical differences in stroke production.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 09:29 
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hrm...
Ma Long straight arm loops unless he's lifting backspin.

To my eye, none of those european players do that.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 10:46 
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Werner Schlager. Pretty straight.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 23:23 
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Hmm.. Lots of Chinese players I see have straight arm when looping like Wang Liqin.

But to at least answer my curiosity(I hope I don't get killed like the cat), can you please answer this?
What style of loop does Kenta Matsudaira have? Everytime I watch him, I get annoyed because whenever I get motivated to get my lazy self to analyze, he dosen't loop.

Can you guys also answer the pop quiz in the first post?

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2009, 06:05 
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Well, as I was saying, I reject the idea that looping style depends on what country you come from. (Also, Silver, for another example of straight arm forehand looping, see Jean Michel Saive).

As for Kenta, he is unusual among world class men in that he plays very very close to the table (almost at the same distance as women like Zhang Yining) and he has outrageously quick reflexes and unreal flip shots (not to mention really strange serves). His arm is pretty straight (especially on backhand side). Not sure there is anyone else I would compare him to. He will be a force for a long time to come!

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2009, 08:59 
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saive?
hrm, I'm going to have to say no again. While Saive does straighten his arm more than most european players (in general), he usually gets much much thicker contact with the ball than other straight arm loopers. While this may be just due to the rubber type, I'd tend to class it as different.

Schlager and Kreanga are the only straight arm european looper that come to mind right now. Even there, I can see differences. Schlager is all about movement economy, which is markedly different to most chinese straight arm loopers.

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2009, 09:07 
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Re: Ethan Jin

Looks like a fairly typical modern style loop. Looks a bit more european than asian to me due to the contact.

It's quite common to see this style of loop in younger juniors and cadets. Most players don't really personalise their looping style until they get older (read that as, physically bigger)

It's not a straight arm loop, if that's what you're thinking.

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2009, 23:58 
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I guess the one thing that seems different to me is that Asian/Chinese players often seem to follow through their loops by sending their arms all the way across their bodies and thereby get maximum power, and European loopers still tend to end up with their paddle in a "salute" position, which facilitates recovery from the stroke.

It can be seen nicely in some recent youtube videos of Ma Long versus Dima Otcharov.

I still think though that there is not really that much difference and that you can't really generalize on the basis of geography (except maybe about sponge hardness/tackiness preferences).

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009, 00:15 
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Baal wrote:
Well, as I was saying, I reject the idea that looping style depends on what country you come from. (Also, Silver, for another example of straight arm forehand looping, see Jean Michel Saive).

As for Kenta, he is unusual among world class men in that he plays very very close to the table (almost at the same distance as women like Zhang Yining) and he has outrageously quick reflexes and unreal flip shots (not to mention really strange serves). His arm is pretty straight (especially on backhand side). Not sure there is anyone else I would compare him to. He will be a force for a long time to come!


I think Saive, Persson and the rest of the old Euro players have Chinese style loops. I think Waldner was the one who started European Loop?

As for the statement where you said you reject the idea your looping style. Actually you can learn any style of loop. Depends on what you like. I mean I have a European Loop against topsin and I have Chinese Loop against backspin because I want to take advantage of the slowness of the backspin ball to add more force to my loop. See Ai Fukuhara attack backspin balls and you'll know what I mean.

This is my guess. Let's take a coach whose offering a clinic to learn table tennis. You went there clueless in table tennis. You'll learn his style of loop because that's what he is gonna teach. Another example is Pingskills. Lots of juniors here have a European Loop because they went to pingskills to learn.

If I read the history of table tennis right, it goes like this. When the japanese invented sponge rubbers, they invented the loop drive (asia's looping style). Players then copied this and battled out until the young Sweden, JO Waldner invented the European loop. That's my understanding btw.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009, 13:04 
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Yeah, it depends a bit on how your are taught, also body size matters. Tall guys play different from short guys.

I am still not convinced that one can make a general rule about Chinese players spinning one way, and European players spinning another.

And some guys find their own way of playing.

Anyway, looping in Europe predated the "old guys" you are talking about. Many people believe that modern counter looping was invented by Klampar and Joyner.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2009, 21:13 
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Silver wrote:
Re: Ethan Jin

Looks like a fairly typical modern style loop. Looks a bit more european than asian to me due to the contact.

It's quite common to see this style of loop in younger juniors and cadets. Most players don't really personalise their looping style until they get older (read that as, physically bigger)

It's not a straight arm loop, if that's what you're thinking.


I"m thinking of it being more of Asian to me. Asian Loop isn't just straight arm. If i observed carefully, Euro Loop starts on the side while Asian Loop starts lower and it has more of a wind up stroke.

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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 00:09 
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How do you differentiate Euro and Chinese BH Loop? A shortened Euro BH Loop looks Chinese....

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