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PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 05:20 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: St Francis, WI, USA
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Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Storkraft 0.8
I have not used Vortex so I cannot compare. Others here may be able to.

The Matador was the first blade I started using with these types of rubbers. It is a good blade to use. I eventually switched to the DMS Deluxe Carbon and don't regret it. I think the Matador is probably a bit better for control, but the Deluxe Carbon gives more effect. It depends on what kind of "feel" you like. If you don't want something really hard for your forehand, stick with the Matador as that will be easier for you to handle.

After quite a bit of practice I've learned to hit very well with the Storkraft in 0.8 mm. I'm still working on the consistency, but the key is to go aggressively through the ball, quickly snapping my forehand and wrist, and it gives a bullet. The instant that I try to ease off the shot a bit, I miss just about every time. It's got to be hard, and the ball has to be above the net height.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1777
Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Storkraft 0.8


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PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 06:15 
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Blade: Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH: Victas TDE
BH: DMS Störkraft
gepi1993 wrote:
Hi,

can you please help me comparing storkraft with vortex?

I'm playing with vortex red sponge 1.2 on dr neubauer matador from 1 year and this setup is pretty fine but i feel like i'm too slow and can't be agressive enough against passive players. In other words i play very well against agressive players and i'm weak against long pimples blockers or people who only put the ball with no spin on my bh witout looping at all.

Before vortex i tried a dr. neubauer abs 2 soft 2.5 mm but it wasn't effective at all for me, decent on agressive strokes (little better than vortex) but terrible on reversal and blocks.

Can storkraft let me being more agressive manteining nice reversal and blocks?

Wich mm size you suggest me?

I want something that is a bit faster than vortex but not too much so i don't know if it's better 0.8 or 1.2.

Another question, do you think matador is good for that kind of rubber? Or is better to switch on something more stiff like texa or texa carbon?

Thanks for help.



Hi there !

Strörkraft use the same red sponge as the Vortex. However, the topsheet is a lot harder and the pips are a lot longer. So even in the same thickness, the Störkraft is faster than the Vortex.
Matador is a good blade for glanti, it will be definitely good with the Störkraft.

Spin reversal with Strökraft is way better than the Vortex red sponge. It's better at attacking too, but it means also that it's a little more difficult to do a drop shot just behind the net or short blocks.
You have better control with Störkraft against heavy topspin, because of the long pips of the topsheet. The pips of the vortex were too short and sometimes when the topspin was too strong, the ball sank into the wood causing an uncontrollable ball for me.

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH - Victas Triple Double Extra max
BH - DMS Störkraft 1.2mm

Setup 2
Blade - Siam custom
FH - Xiom Tau 2 max
BH - Barna Original Super Glanti 1.6mm


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PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 21:36 
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Rinforzando wrote:
gepi1993 wrote:
Hi,

can you please help me comparing storkraft with vortex?

I'm playing with vortex red sponge 1.2 on dr neubauer matador from 1 year and this setup is pretty fine but i feel like i'm too slow and can't be agressive enough against passive players. In other words i play very well against agressive players and i'm weak against long pimples blockers or people who only put the ball with no spin on my bh witout looping at all.

Before vortex i tried a dr. neubauer abs 2 soft 2.5 mm but it wasn't effective at all for me, decent on agressive strokes (little better than vortex) but terrible on reversal and blocks.

Can storkraft let me being more agressive manteining nice reversal and blocks?

Wich mm size you suggest me?

I want something that is a bit faster than vortex but not too much so i don't know if it's better 0.8 or 1.2.

Another question, do you think matador is good for that kind of rubber? Or is better to switch on something more stiff like texa or texa carbon?

Thanks for help.



Hi there !

Strörkraft use the same red sponge as the Vortex. However, the topsheet is a lot harder and the pips are a lot longer. So even in the same thickness, the Störkraft is faster than the Vortex.
Matador is a good blade for glanti, it will be definitely good with the Störkraft.

Spin reversal with Strökraft is way better than the Vortex red sponge. It's better at attacking too, but it means also that it's a little more difficult to do a drop shot just behind the net or short blocks.
You have better control with Störkraft against heavy topspin, because of the long pips of the topsheet. The pips of the vortex were too short and sometimes when the topspin was too strong, the ball sank into the wood causing an uncontrollable ball for me.


Thank you mate! In my situation you suggest me to go for 0.8 or 1.2?

Another question..there are difference in service receive and spin sensivity? With vortex i have some difficult to receive decently fast and long serve with no spin or topspin. Storkraft is better on this? I can attack that kind of serves or it's impossible?


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PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 21:51 
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Darth Pips
Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4623
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
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Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Storkraft 0.8
You can't "attack" those type of long, fast, dead serves. But I've found some effective ways to handle them

One, keeping your wrist firm and blade angle steady, with the same angle you'd use against a top spin ball, go into and down through the ball. Sort of like a chop block, but of course not with a loose wrist to skim the ball. I played many matches against someone who used hardbat rubber and would serve me fast dead balls with it, and that allows me to control the placement very well. If caught right off the bounce, I'm able to keep it low over the net and push it deep into their backhand corner, making the next shot difficult for them.

Two, using the same method as mentioned above, make the same motion but with a softer, less aggressive stroke. It takes a lot of practice to get the touch right, but that will return a short ball that crosses up your opponent, because they are naturally assuming they will get a long return.

Third, you can swipe across the side of the ball to take some of the pace off and re-direct the shot at an uncomfortable angle. For example, if they are serving from their backhand corner to my backhand corner. I'll catch it right off the bounce, but not on the back of the ball. I'll try to catch it off the side of the ball, but still making sure to go "through" the ball on the shot. That takes the return short to the forehand side, even putting a little side spin on it.

The thing to remember is, if you struggle with the touch on the second and third options, just go for the first option, a controlled, low, deep ball into their backhand. What I've learned with this rubber is that I don't mind if they attack; the defensive shots are so nasty, I trust the ability to defend almost any ball to it, sending a really nasty ball back. The key is to not give them a free point or pop the ball up.

Again, this takes a lot of practice, but with repetition you will get the feel for blade angle and how "hard" to hit through the ball. The key is the timing, getting the ball right off the bounce.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1777
Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Storkraft 0.8


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PostPosted: 12 May 2021, 03:39 
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Thanks for suggestion. I will try it next trainings.


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PostPosted: 12 May 2021, 17:26 
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Blade: Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH: Victas TDE
BH: DMS Störkraft
gepi1993 wrote:

Thank you mate! In my situation you suggest me to go for 0.8 or 1.2?

Another question..there are difference in service receive and spin sensivity? With vortex i have some difficult to receive decently fast and long serve with no spin or topspin. Storkraft is better on this? I can attack that kind of serves or it's impossible?


Never tried 0.8mm, but I guess 1.2mm should be enough. Faster but not too much faster.

The fast no spin serve is our worst nightmare. You can try to relax your wrist and arm and fingers to do a short block so the opponent can't attack after.
The topspin serve, just block it if you were blocking a topspin. The key is to be very relaxed to be able to do a short block.

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH - Victas Triple Double Extra max
BH - DMS Störkraft 1.2mm

Setup 2
Blade - Siam custom
FH - Xiom Tau 2 max
BH - Barna Original Super Glanti 1.6mm


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PostPosted: 01 Jun 2021, 22:07 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4623
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
Has thanked: 95 times
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Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Storkraft 0.8
Over the weekend I played in my first tournament after training with Storkraft the past couple of months. It was a marathon of a weekend, played 6 events and ended up playing 23 matches and 85 games thanks to advancing beyond round robin play in 3 of them. Lost 3-2 in semifinals of U-1900, lost 3-2 to the same guy in finals of U-1750, and lost in semifinals of over 50 age event. I've never placed in three events in a big tournament.
By the end of the weekend, I was known as "the anti guy". :devil:
The Storkraft worked really well, I couldn't be more happy. It controlled spinny serves, provided a lot of deception, and gave me a lot of points when blocking against top spin. It even created a lot of errors when I would serve with it. I'd set my opponent up by using a number of serves with heavy spin, then use the same motion with the anti, and just about every time, the first time or two I used it, it was a free point. I had a number of players tell me that with my improved forehand loop and the Storkraft on the backhand, it was a very dangerous combination to play against.
When I struggled with the Storkraft it was almost always a matter of consistency with my skill. Either I would miss balls I should have blocked or made an attack with, but this was fault with me and not the equipment. I just need to get more consistent with it.
What most good/smart players would do is what you would expect. Some guys would serve heavy under spin and look for me to push, reversing to top spin that they would loop hard. Against those players, I had to start hitting with the anti instead of pushing back, or try to drop the ball back short. Other guys would just feed me no spin balls, which I'd either drop short or hit. Again, the matches I struggled were when I missed these shots.
A number of players who I'd never met, especially other defenders, came up to me to discuss the equipment, as they'd heard about it but hadn't given it a try. It was fun to create a "buzz". :)
As I told them, it's not "easy" to play with. It takes a lot of time, patience and training to be able to use it well. And I'm just scratching the surface. But I'll say it again, if you like to defend close to the table, there is nothing better.
Wanted to give thanks to a couple of forum members for their videos. Watching the videos from Amir and Vinay, both very skilled at using the DMS anti rubbers, inspired me to give this a try. And watching their match videos helped me to learn some of the best combinations to use in matches. Thank you so much for sharing your play and insights, this is what I love about this forum, it really can be a place where any style of player can come and learn from others.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1777
Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Storkraft 0.8


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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 20:12 
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Iron Pips
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Location: Göteborg, Sweden
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Blade: Barna Winner
FH: Yinhe Jupiter II max
BH: Barna SuperGlanti 1,2 mm
Nice to read about your progress!
Yesterday I returned to anti again after a long break using mostly short pips. Last week I started a little with anti but with SuperGlanti and Palio TCT. It did not feel good so I returned to short pips again for an internal competition this weekend. I realized I wanted my old Clipper and on that blade Störkraft is my favourite anti, in 1.2 mm. This setup is very good, don't hesitate to try it (for me Clipper Classic is the best).

What Störkraft is very good (compared to SG) at is aggressive pushing or lifting against back spin, very fast and with nice low arc. Also, handeling no spin is very good and you can control the ball's placement in depth rather easy. But the best part, compared to SG is that it is bot as predictable for the opponnent. I believe that the special sponge together with the top sheet makes the spin different with very small adjustments or because of how much the ball digs into the rubber.

The only down side compared to SG is the lower spin reversal, but it is still good enough for making it very hard to loop twice against block.

Take care!

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Getting better - health and game | Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack


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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 22:02 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: St Francis, WI, USA
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Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Storkraft 0.8
I love how aggressive I can be against those no spin and back spin shots coming at me. It really surprises the opponent when I give them a fast, flat hit. The best that they can do is lift it back. I've debated giving the 1.2 a try, just to compare, but I think I'll stick with the 0.8 for the maximum reversal.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1777
Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Storkraft 0.8


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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2021, 22:13 
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Iron Pips
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Blade: Barna Winner
FH: Yinhe Jupiter II max
BH: Barna SuperGlanti 1,2 mm
dwruck wrote:
I love how aggressive I can be against those no spin and back spin shots coming at me. It really surprises the opponent when I give them a fast, flat hit. The best that they can do is lift it back. I've debated giving the 1.2 a try, just to compare, but I think I'll stick with the 0.8 for the maximum reversal.
The 1.2 does not suit many blades. I have tried on quite a few but for some reason it shines on Clipper but not on many other blades. I am not sure it would be good on your blade. Störkraft is the anti that differs most between differnet thicknesses I think. But it is rather easy to remove the sponge, so you can just buy the red sponge in 1.2 from DMS next time you buy a new sheet, and then remove the sponge from the worn top sheet and try it on 1.2 mm.

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Getting better - health and game | Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 19:36 
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Finally i can write something about storecraft 0.8 mm.

I tested the rubber on dr. neubauer matador texa carbon with thibar mx-s max on forehand.

The rubber is very good on agressive strokes against pretty every ball. Maybe is a bit too fast but speed make strokes more effective because they bounce often on the lines.

What i don't like so much is spin reversal and the consistency on blocking fast topspin. Maybe i need more training but is very hard to keep these strokes on the table or send it short after the net. I found difficult also on generating enough spin reversal. My partner can pretty always attack also the second ball.

Another negative thing is after 4-5 trainings the surface is already ruined (some internal pimple exploded and some scretch).

Compared with my previous rubber (vortex 1.2 mm red sponge) definitively it seem better for an agressive game with more variety of effective strokes, but worse on durability, block and spin reversal.

Any suggestion to help me get more feeling with this rubber? Yours ruined that fast too?


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 21:46 
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Darth Pips
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Location: St Francis, WI, USA
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Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Storkraft 0.8
I have not had the same issues with you when it comes to durability. I've been using my sheets now for a few months and no problems. Against fast top spin I get a lot of spin reversal. I do agree that keeping the ball short is more difficult than others I've tried, but generally if an opponent can re-loop it's not nearly as hard the second time. Working on dropping fast deep balls to my backhand short is one of the biggest things I want to continue to work on now that I am feeling comfortable with returning them deeper. When you are blocking remember to keep your wrist still. The control comes from how much you move into the ball. Against the hardest shots, I hold steady or even try to side swipe (moving sideways and forward to cut across the ball) a bit to take off the pace.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1777
Blade: DMS Carbon Deluxe
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Storkraft 0.8


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2021, 05:27 
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Blade: Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH: Victas TDE
BH: DMS Störkraft
I used it for nearly a month and never experienced the internal explosion. The scratches on the surface are only cosmetics, it does not affect the spin reversal.

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH - Victas Triple Double Extra max
BH - DMS Störkraft 1.2mm

Setup 2
Blade - Siam custom
FH - Xiom Tau 2 max
BH - Barna Original Super Glanti 1.6mm


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2021, 00:31 
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Blade: Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH: Victas TDE
BH: DMS Störkraft
Glued a 1.2mm Störkraft on a Nittaku Goriki Danshi (7 ply wood, every one of them are Walnut). My point is: slick antis work very well with hard outer ply like walnut (Dr.N Matador for example) But what happens if the second to last and the last ply are hard ? What happens if every plies of the blade are hard ? Do I get more spin reversal ?

Well I will see tomorrow

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH - Victas Triple Double Extra max
BH - DMS Störkraft 1.2mm

Setup 2
Blade - Siam custom
FH - Xiom Tau 2 max
BH - Barna Original Super Glanti 1.6mm


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2021, 06:21 
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Blade: Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH: Victas TDE
BH: DMS Störkraft
So far so good ! Played with this combination at least 3 times now (2 hours session). Throw angle is very very very very low. The lowest I have ever seen. I can't imagine how low it will be if it was a Störkraft 0.8 instead of a 1.2. The feel is very direct and very hard. Spin reversal seems to be very good but I need more testing in this area.

The only con I see is the price of the blade. Around 230€.

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Goriki Danshi
FH - Victas Triple Double Extra max
BH - DMS Störkraft 1.2mm

Setup 2
Blade - Siam custom
FH - Xiom Tau 2 max
BH - Barna Original Super Glanti 1.6mm


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