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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2019, 04:13 
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Iron Pips
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Gery06 wrote:
What ball was used?


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2019, 05:40 
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Blade: LHS K3.4 Off+
FH: Xiom Vega Def (MAX)
BH: Spinlab Vortex (2.3mm)
They say in facebook in the video there use 729 ABS 3* ball...

:o :o Ritc ABS ball????


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2019, 21:01 
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Def-attack wrote:
Gery06 wrote:
What ball was used?


Skickat från min Mi A2 Lite via Tapatalk

Hi Def-attack I follow and enjoy your observations of anti rubbers despite being a long pips player. I always found your reviews being based
on the entire testing of the material. I consider you as an expert in anties. I read lots of praises to Vortex on the German forum
Noppen test forum. So my question to you: Did you have a chance to test it?


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2019, 22:05 
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Iron Pips
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Thanks for your kind words.

I did test the Vortex for about 1 hour on my regular blade and with the red supersoft and slow sponge in 1.2 mm. The top sheet feels a little like Transformer and ABS2 soft, slightly rough surface and a rather thick and heavy top sheet with thin pimples rather close to each other. The top sheet is a little flexable, not like cardbox and it feels very solid, like it would last many years.

With Stiga Perform however, it was not very good for blocks, they went high and with little spin. But it is super safe and you can keep the blocks short, but if you face experienced opponnets they will punish you.

But you can attack slight top spins with this anti and that was very cool. Pushes against back spin were rather harmless.

I also tried it with the sponge of ABS2 in 2.1 mm. Then it behaved very similar to ABS2 :).

I will try it a few times more on other blades but for now I look forward to mount the old Spinparasite (very hard and shiny surface) on this superslow red sponge :)

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2019, 01:17 
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....So this Vortex thing behaves similarly to Gigant , I assume? and not good enough for high levels???

this is my impression from all the posts, right ????

I like slow antis,... but not ineffective ones at high levels,...


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2019, 01:49 
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Iron Pips
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I would guess Vortex has a lot more spin reversal as Gigant, that is more of a classic but extremly slow anti. Vortex as as good spin reversal as the other frictionless antis like ABS2 and Scandal. But perhaps not as good as Reflection and Diabolic ES with ABS ball. I was trying it with Stiga Perform, probably the worst ABS ball in this aspect. And I guess that it works beter with another blade than my Carbonado 90, which may be too slow for Vortex with 1.2 mm red sponge.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2019, 02:21 
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Def-attack wrote:
I would guess Vortex has a lot more spin reversal as Gigant, that is more of a classic but extremly slow anti. Vortex as as good spin reversal as the other frictionless antis like ABS2 and Scandal. But perhaps not as good as Reflection and Diabolic ES with ABS ball. I was trying it with Stiga Perform, probably the worst ABS ball in this aspect. And I guess that it works beter with another blade than my Carbonado 90, which may be too slow for Vortex with 1.2 mm red sponge.

I am getting Vortex 1.2 and 2.3mm red sponges. I am planning to mount 1.2 on Yinhe T-6 and 2.3 on Carbonado 290. So the tests will be based on my poor technic as
I never used anti as a competition surface. Once I had a few sessions with this novelty I will pass my impression to EJ community. But for now I wishing to the forumers
a wonderful festive season and Happy New Year.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2019, 20:27 
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Barricade Def
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BH: DMS Reflection 1,5
I Would like to hear smth from Amir about this rubber. Both in 1,2 and 2,3 =)


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2019, 21:56 
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Most posters on the German forum agree that this is the best frictionless Anti ever produced, with the best Spin reversal by a wide margin. Some say it is almost as good as frictionless pimples, but some disagree there. Most people agree that the effect of the rubber is heavily depending on the blade and that you need a hard and fast blade for it. Some people think that they will regain their rating points that they lost after the introduction of the ABS ball.
Also, it seems to keep its playing characteristics very well.
A few people disagree completely and say that it is not better than the Antis they've been playing.

The rubber is made in Italy, so it is completely different from the Chinese frictionless Antis from the German companies. Also, the mystery company, which seems to be a one man team, didn't expect the success and is having trouble handling all the requests.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2019, 05:04 
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I do own two Vortices both on red sponge, one in 1.2, the other 2.3. The first is mounted on a MSP Two Faces by Senkakujo, the second on a Neubauer Firewall +. Both are balsa blades well supporting my forehand. The Two Faces is slow to such an extent that it is almost impossible to get a ball over the net except with raw power; therefore I did not test it more than half an hour (losing power in the right arm ;-). We mainly used Nittaku Premium 40+*** balls, but I did some tests with my assortment of other plastics with similar results (though the Nittaku imo still is the least bad of all those bad balls for spin oriented play).
The 2.3 is even slower, but the blade has appropriate speed. As already said by others, this rubber imho is the best slick anti on the market. It is the by far slowest (compared to almost the whole MSP palette and ABS²). Spin reversal is difficult even for my year-long partner who played topspin against the TES as long as he wanted. My returns got typically much shorter than before, but I had to adjust my technique a little: Only hard balls can simply be blocked (though much safer than ever), all other balls need some own action against the ball. However, as soon as this was in my brain, which lasted a few minutes only, it is extremely safe, short and reverted. Before I had only one slick anti that allowed me to attack balls poor in spin - this is the second one. You see the necessary technique in the videos on Facebook linked in previous posts. You do not need to have the arm movement that quick, just to open the blade a little more than this player does. For me it works fine and because of the excellent placement possibilities it is dangerous despite or maybe even because of its slow speed. The downside: you should not attack underspin with an underspin-like movement, but always with a spin like or just a push with a 100° blade position, this produces much more reversal.

BTW, Amir does not write in fora about rubbers from other manufacturers because he is a contract player. This is honest!

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2019, 09:37 
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Slick wrote:
I do own two Vortices both on red sponge, one in 1.2, the other 2.3. The first is mounted on a MSP Two Faces by Senkakujo, the second on a Neubauer Firewall +. Both are balsa blades well supporting my forehand. The Two Faces is slow to such an extent that it is almost impossible to get a ball over the net except with raw power; therefore I did not test it more than half an hour (losing power in the right arm ;-). We mainly used Nittaku Premium 40+*** balls, but I did some tests with my assortment of other plastics with similar results (though the Nittaku imo still is the least bad of all those bad balls for spin oriented play).
The 2.3 is even slower, but the blade has appropriate speed. As already said by others, this rubber imho is the best slick anti on the market. It is the by far slowest (compared to almost the whole MSP palette and ABS²). Spin reversal is difficult even for my year-long partner who played topspin against the TES as long as he wanted. My returns got typically much shorter than before, but I had to adjust my technique a little: Only hard balls can simply be blocked (though much safer than ever), all other balls need some own action against the ball. However, as soon as this was in my brain, which lasted a few minutes only, it is extremely safe, short and reverted. Before I had only one slick anti that allowed me to attack balls poor in spin - this is the second one. You see the necessary technique in the videos on Facebook linked in previous posts. You do not need to have the arm movement that quick, just to open the blade a little more than this player does. For me it works fine and because of the excellent placement possibilities it is dangerous despite or maybe even because of its slow speed. The downside: you should not attack underspin with an underspin-like movement, but always with a spin like or just a push with a 100° blade position, this produces much more reversal.

BTW, Amir does not write in fora about rubbers from other manufacturers because he is a contract player. This is honest!

Thank you Slick for your excellent review of Vortex anti. For me it is a quite revelation that anti plays well on balsa wood. My Vortex antis are on the way from Saturno TT.
Daniele - the owner of Saturno is a very nice guy to deal with. According to Noppen Test forum Vortex anti is making news in German table tennis community.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2019, 19:22 
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Hi, Redspot. You should just take care that your balsa blade is not too slow. Mine is All to All+. I think this is the lower end.

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019, 23:26 
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there is one strange observation with the Vortex: I've already mentioned that slice against underspin comes with relatively low reversal compared to the reversal I get through other strikes. And now I observed that if I (1) slice on empty balls or (2) serve with a slice, there is a little (but annoying especially for players used to antis) underspin in my return. Maybe these observations have the same background: Upon slicing there might be a longer contact with this rather flabby rubber, the ball digs a little into its surface taking out some spin upon opposing underspin, but is able to produce some own spin. I think I can remember that the Joola Timeless, which had a similarly flabby surface, behaved a little like this. Have other testers got similar experiences?

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2019, 23:34 
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That doesn't sound like a bad thing. In fact, one of the worst things about playing with a high reversal material is that if the opponent pushes to you they know they're getting topspin in return which can be easily loop-killed.

I just ordered mine and will report when I receive and test.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2020, 20:35 
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Iron Pips
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Here is a short clip I just did.
https://youtu.be/z-WvWKYMX5k

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