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 Post subject: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2024, 03:36 
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We all have heard about the "myth" or "fact" that the flantis reversing the spin work better with stiff blades.

My question is, why does the blade exactly need to be stiff? Is it, because the stiff blade is fast so the rebound speed is fast so it does not dampen too much energy from the ball so the spin's more or less goes back? Or why?

As far as I have heard, it is pretty unpredictable what combinations would work best and even read once that a pretty flexy blade gave off good reversal.

So what's up with the need of stiffness?

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2024, 14:48 
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My recollection of the same theory for playing with traditional pips was one of control - you need to know much more precisely the ball will go in the direction you want, and a stiff blade with less flex provides that level of consistency and control of direction. I guess with highly spinny rubbers, the arc of spin makes the control of a flat drive less important. I suppose the same logic would apply to FLanti - control of direction is important, though it almost always comes down to personal preferences and stroke mechanics of individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2024, 16:22 
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allencorn wrote:
My recollection of the same theory for playing with traditional pips was one of control - you need to know much more precisely the ball will go in the direction you want, and a stiff blade with less flex provides that level of consistency and control of direction. I guess with highly spinny rubbers, the arc of spin makes the control of a flat drive less important. I suppose the same logic would apply to FLanti - control of direction is important, though it almost always comes down to personal preferences and stroke mechanics of individuals.


So if I read correctly, the stiffness is important for the consistent and predictable rebounds from the blade and not for the reversal itself. Seems legit.

Thanks for that!

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2024, 00:34 
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I agree, stiff is better to control the block.

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2024, 01:47 
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Not only is stifness very important but also the number and THICKNESS of the layers.Also, the glueing is paramount .

Furthermore,You must take into account the type of carbon and the different kinds of wood.No wonder some companies make clones of the famous brands but never ever will you find the same blade with the same features, just 1 gram difference and the blade is totally different .

From experience , the best blades for blocking have been stiff and average hard- do not think too hard is beneficial .

Hope this can clarify things a little


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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2024, 06:12 
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The key is DWELL time. There is more dwell with flexible blades. You can generate more spin as a result.

Flexible <----------------------------------> Stiff

The ball will stay longer on a more flexible blade.
The longer it stays, the more spin plays a part.

---

Try playing against half the table up vertically. The table is stiff and does not change the spin direction (almost at all). Send it top spin and it continues it back to you in the same rotation as backspin. This is not generating spin, its just continuing the same rotation a bit like long pimples.

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 00:12 
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It's AA who said it long times ago and I trusted him because of the obvious very good spin reversal he gets on his blocks. But now, since I have more experience, usually it's a stiff blade is usually better for control because the blocks are a lot more accurate and in theory spin reversal is better (because less dwell dime = less effect absorption = more spin preserved and given back to the opponent) BUT it is not always the case, some stiff blades don't give any spin reversal at all (I still don't know exactly why, maybe from the gluing procedure of the wood veneers) and some flexy blade can give good spin reversal with right glanti. Some glantis which are very fast should always be a on slow and flexy blade (like SG super attack or SG black edition), at this point you don't care about stiffness and accuracy because the fact they have a fast and relatively hard sponge compensate the loss of the blade's stiffness.

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 00:33 
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Rinforzando wrote:
It's AA who said it long times ago and I trusted him because of the obvious very good spin reversal he gets on his blocks. But now, since I have more experience, usually it's a stiff blade is usually better for control because the blocks are a lot more accurate and in theory spin reversal is better (because less dwell dime = less effect absorption = more spin preserved and given back to the opponent) BUT it is not always the case, some stiff blades don't give any spin reversal at all (I still don't know exactly why, maybe from the gluing procedure of the wood veneers) and some flexy blade can give good spin reversal with right glanti. Some glantis which are very fast should always be a on slow and flexy blade (like SG super attack or SG black edition), at this point you don't care about stiffness and accuracy because the fact they have a fast and relatively hard sponge compensate the loss of the blade's stiffness.


So, in conclusion, we could say that the higher the stiffness, the greater the reversal is only partially true because of the reasons you have mentioned. But, generally, the stiffer blades are usually harder to loop with. Right now, I have the feeling the blade I am using is giving of a relatively good reversal, but hard to get good loop with, you have to be very precise and brush the ball. Lifting backspin is next to impossible. I have also realized that the high reversal is sometimes not enough as it could easily be turned against you if your opponent knows how to deal with it. It might be more beneficial in the long term to have extreme control over reversal not to let the opponent play their own game and set up an attack (as my playing style have recently been transforming to).

I have also read the others' comments and they made me think. They suggest the classic trade off when it comes to the stiffness of the blades with the possible reversal from the flantis. Higher flex, lower reversal and vice versa, but not in every case. The general attitude is that it is extremely difficult the predict which comibinations and how would them work. You might have some blue ideas, but nothing sure can be said. I guess in the end of day I have to keep testing and searching.

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 00:52 
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GregorTT425 wrote:
Rinforzando wrote:
It's AA who said it long times ago and I trusted him because of the obvious very good spin reversal he gets on his blocks. But now, since I have more experience, usually it's a stiff blade is usually better for control because the blocks are a lot more accurate and in theory spin reversal is better (because less dwell dime = less effect absorption = more spin preserved and given back to the opponent) BUT it is not always the case, some stiff blades don't give any spin reversal at all (I still don't know exactly why, maybe from the gluing procedure of the wood veneers) and some flexy blade can give good spin reversal with right glanti. Some glantis which are very fast should always be a on slow and flexy blade (like SG super attack or SG black edition), at this point you don't care about stiffness and accuracy because the fact they have a fast and relatively hard sponge compensate the loss of the blade's stiffness.


So, in conclusion, we could say that the higher the stiffness, the greater the reversal is only partially true because of the reasons you have mentioned. But, generally, the stiffer blades are usually harder to loop with. Right now, I have the feeling the blade I am using is giving of a relatively good reversal, but hard to get good loop with, you have to be very precise and brush the ball. Lifting backspin is next to impossible. I have also realized that the high reversal is sometimes not enough as it could easily be turned against you if your opponent knows how to deal with it. It might be more beneficial in the long term to have extreme control over reversal not to let the opponent play their own game and set up an attack (as my playing style have recently been transforming to).

I have also read the others' comments and they made me think. They suggest the classic trade off when it comes to the stiffness of the blades with the possible reversal from the flantis. Higher flex, lower reversal and vice versa, but not in every case. The general attitude is that it is extremely difficult the predict which comibinations and how would them work. You might have some blue ideas, but nothing sure can be said. I guess in the end of day I have to keep testing and searching.


It depends on your strategy. If you play let's say 75% of the time with the glanti and 25% of the time with your forehand then you want to prioritize the spin reversal a blade that let the spin reversal shines (and very often this kind of blade aren't so comfortable to lif backspin since the dwell time is low). If you are more of a fh oriented player, then you need a blade optimized for your fh and less focus on the spin reversal.

What can I see is with good spin reversal, even if your block goes long or a little high, the spin reversal saves your life because the opponent will loop/push in the net because too much backspin.
With bad spin reversal, you need to be extremely focused on getting the ball back low and short (nearly two bounces, two bounces is the ideal) and the opponent will still be forced to push and then after he pushes you setup your fh and win the point.

Conclusion: bad spin reversal = less forgiving on blocks. good spin reversal = more forigiving on blocks

I have chose the path of the highest spin reversal possible, and it's quite funny because sometimes, I completely fail my block, it is really high like a high ball you would get when the opponent is very far away from the table trying to survive but the spin reversal is so huge the opponent will systematically smashes into the net (and by the way who trains against high ball with a lot of underspin ? Nobodies, not even pro because it is a ball that simply doesn't exist with normal rubbers)

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 02:55 
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I am pretty sure I am the second type here you have mentioned.

I have realized I still try to loop so much balls, because I want to get my points through spin (not necessarily reversal, but loop). I am thinking of getting a new blade with the same rubber to see if there is any improvement. I might lose some reversal, but I gain more control, as far as I can see, with control, I am better off than with reversal. I might also get more room for error when it comes to attacking. I will replace my stiff blade with a flexier one to see what's new, maybe I'll get surprised. We'll see, but I value the quality of my attacks more than the spin reversal with the anti, so when I have to decide which to prioritize, I have to give it to my forehand (and sometimes backhand).

I might start valuing control over disruption more. I have realized I have become passive, as I relied on my reversal too much and lost many points to the opponent handling them well. Now I start using my anti to mainly set up an attack and for a little disorientation and disruption.

Currently I am choosing the path of a more active style of play to maximize control and spin capabilities, even if it reduces the efficiency of my flanti's reversal, but definitely not control.

Oh well, it's a nice (and expensive) thing to find one's style and game, isn't it...?

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 14:16 
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GregorTT425 wrote:
I have realized I have become passive, as I relied on my reversal too much and lost many points to the opponent handling them well.


I think this is a key point. Spin reversal only works if it causes your opponent trouble. If you play someone who can handle it, you are without a primary weapon. If you want to win points by attacking (with inverted, anti, or pips out), then spin reversal becomes less of a focus and what you want is control and perhaps speed. That might come from stiff blades, flexy blades, or who knows what kind of blade. It all is a complex interaction of blade, grip, rubber and technique, and maybe even glue. Yikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 22:08 
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allencorn wrote:
GregorTT425 wrote:
I have realized I have become passive, as I relied on my reversal too much and lost many points to the opponent handling them well.


I think this is a key point. Spin reversal only works if it causes your opponent trouble. If you play someone who can handle it, you are without a primary weapon. If you want to win points by attacking (with inverted, anti, or pips out), then spin reversal becomes less of a focus and what you want is control and perhaps speed. That might come from stiff blades, flexy blades, or who knows what kind of blade. It all is a complex interaction of blade, grip, rubber and technique, and maybe even glue. Yikes.


That's true. The main focus will go onto spin and control, rather than reversal. I feel with higher control and heavier spin I have got greater chance that with reversal sometimes heavy, sometimes light and unpredictable catapult from my stiff and hard blade. The stiff blade also lets me down when it comes to dealing with underspin or creating spin. I have put emphasize on control and spin, some reversal will stay nevertheless.

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2024, 08:02 
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I think the BEST approach is to look for blades that are a safe bet since not all stiff blades perform in the same profitable way.For example, Yinhe LQ1 Is lvery stiff and hard and It IS not very suitable for blocking with pips,maybe It can do the trick for anti.


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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2024, 16:57 
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charmander defender wrote:
I think the BEST approach is to look for blades that are a safe bet since not all stiff blades perform in the same profitable way.For example, Yinhe LQ1 Is lvery stiff and hard and It IS not very suitable for blocking with pips,maybe It can do the trick for anti.


No, stiff blades are not option for me. I have tried a new blade yesterday and fell in love with that. Now I just have to get my hands on one and some new rubbers. I am not only looking for a blade that performs good with my anti, but also inverted rubber. I prioritize my forehand than my anti. So, the blade has to be soft and flexy, so I can impart heavy rotation onto the ball. With a stiff blade I lose my ability of creating good spin easily. I know, both the stiff and flexy blades have their pros and cons, but I see more pros (for me).

Who says the anti might not work good on it if I haven't tried, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Why stiff blades?
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2024, 17:59 
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You guys are right, maximum spin reversal is not a problem for better players.

Here's what is difficult for me though:

Somewhere in between. If you can play controlled drives positioned all over the table with spin reduction. That makes it hard for your opponent to get a rhythm and then he gets cautious about dumping it in the net when doing the usual type of shots against someone who looks like they are topspinning to me.

I am much more scared of short pips players than LP.

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