OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 13 Dec 2019, 20:29


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 03:40 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11013
Location: USA
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 524 times
Blade: Grubba ALL+
FH: Reflectoid 1mm
BH: DG ox, TM ox
A few more notes:

Works pretty well moving around underspin, but not so easy to attack with. The original Gorilla could hit outright winners. With the 1.8 you get good control with a head down Kreanga-type shove. If you play the corner-to-corner game, you'll like this. Of course, anything long we should be trying to loop with the inverted.

Handles no-spin pretty well also with sort of a 45-degree angle chop block that keeps the ball low.

I hope this is one of those antis that lasts a long time. The attached glue sheet is very sticky and strong. So forget testing it on an assortment of blades.

Not sold on it yet, but will continue testing.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 18:44 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
I've got a game tonight and will be using this rubber, so will add anything to my initial impressions tomorrow.

I would also say that I agree with NotBob as well in his thoughts. NotBob, when you say it's pretty good at "moving around underspin" do you mean backspin or slow spin?

I agree that it's not as easy to attack with, but then again, it's much easier to defend with. There is always going to be a trade off between control and attack, especially with rubbers such as these. Personally, I'd rather have better control and use twiddling to attack the ball :) Put it this way, when Gorilla first came out it was very hard to control and defend with (even though you could hit with it). Now they have slowed it down and addressed that problem, but it's harder to hit with. I don't think you'll ever get it so it does both, which is where twiddling comes in :)

In fairness, I never really managed to attack the ball with my Inferno. I mean that was so dead that I couldn't really do much with it apart from blocking, which is why I taught myself to twiddle.

I do still think though that it produces more spin reversal than my old Inferno rubber. The balls it was sending back the other night absolutely fizzed back onto the table :D

Anyway, the match tonight will be the real acid test and I'll let you know how it goes.

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 19:36 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
Good news, it works :D

I played my first game with the new blade and Gorilla last night and we faced out B team in a league match. They had put out their strongest side and having lost so emphatically last week, my confidence was pretty low.

Anyway, I stepped up first to play their best player (he was their best by a LONG way!) and lost the game 3-0. However I was close, 8-11, 7-11, 6-11. Then I stepped up to play my next two games....

The first was against a looper and he was playing very well, looping both backhand and forehand consistently. I lost the first game 9-11, but kept my head and took the next game 11-8. Into the third I took it 11-9 and the fourth game I was 3-9 down and came back to win 12-10!!!! :D

The rubber was working really well. Blocking back the loops was very very effective when I managed to get it back on the table. It is a little quicker than what I'm used to but it's a lot slower than the Gorilla with the original sponge on it. This new slow sponge really does bring the speed of the ball down, especially on my DEF blade.

My final game was against a hard hitter. Now I've never beaten this guy and he beat me 3-0 when I played last time with my Inferno. Anyway, he liked to chop at the ball and dig it around the table and once it popped up, he'd just crack through it. With his chops, I was digging and pushing into them. As I sliced into each one, the spin going back was very heavy. It only took a few dig pushes with the Gorilla before the ball was popping up off of his bat and I came in for the kill. Also, all of his services were just pushed back with a lot of spin reversal. The result? 11-9, 12-10, 12-10 to me :D To beat him is an achievement, but to win 3-0....well I never thought I'd do that.

What the Gorilla gave me was great control and the ability to return very awkward balls. I found that when blocking with an open face, it's best to take the ball straight off the bounce. Also blocking balls with little loop with an open bat face were not working. Each time they were going off the end of the table. Therefore on slower spin balls, I was chop digging into them and the ball was being kept very low and quite fast over the net. In fact, this is the one shot that was winning me a lot of points. Because it was staying so low, with a lot of spin reversal and then skidding off their side of the table, it was an extremely difficult ball to play back. Then when they looped, I blocked with a more open bat face.

In the doubles, I managed to block back an extremely heavy loop that in fairness, I would have struggled to control on my Insider. There was so much spin reversal that the opponent came in to push the ball back and it flew off his bat and underneath the table!!!!

So overall, I'm really please with this set up now and am going to continue working on it. Sure, there are some shots that need to be adapted such as the open faced block but what I've learnt is that the chop-dig shot is even more difficult to play against. I think given a bit more practice, I'm going to be a very difficult player to beat.

Oh and the best bit, when they asked what it was and looked at it, they said "ahhh anti, ok" and smiled. I said "yep, anti ;)" :lol: The confused look on their faces when the ball was wobbling and popping up was quite amusing :)

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 19:46 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32506
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1987 times
Been thanked: 1297 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dr N Troublemaker OX
That's a great effort ChrisBuer!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 22:34 
Offline
Unorthodox Batman
Unorthodox Batman
User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 03:40
Posts: 1101
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Well done Chris.

It's interesting because I spoke to a league player yesterday who has tried this new 1.8 Gorilla and his feeling was that the ball reaction was inconsistent - he had the same view about the original versions. He would play a block one time and get the shot he wanted. He would play an identical block the next time and it would fly high and long. Have you found this?

I love to read about the spin reversal sending his return back under the table - no frictionless replacement has come anywhere near to this kind of reversal in my experience. I feel a ban coming on!

_________________
Switching back to:-
Tango Ultra 2mm black, red dtecs OX on Tachi, having fiddled around recently with:-
Donic Bluefire M3 2mm black / Grass dtecs special on Perfect 9952SRZ6 GK S-Kk-A(-)6-Kk-RZ 154-12
Well done bat!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 23:00 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2008, 21:06
Posts: 1213
Location: England
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Good review Chrisbuer I think i'm hoping for something slower still and will probably play less blocks now anyway. I'm glad your enjoying the rubber and your game more now. I'm still experimenting with rubber and style. MNNB thanks for your thoughts too. If one of his new antis is supposed to be slower than Gorilla 1.8 I may well trial it and of course review it here.

Agree with Dingwol2. I think we should always say after a review nothing will ever replace frictionless then if ITTF read it they may leave it alone. If they banned anti I would quit.

_________________
Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 00:13 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
dingwol2 wrote:
Well done Chris.

It's interesting because I spoke to a league player yesterday who has tried this new 1.8 Gorilla and his feeling was that the ball reaction was inconsistent - he had the same view about the original versions. He would play a block one time and get the shot he wanted. He would play an identical block the next time and it would fly high and long. Have you found this?

I love to read about the spin reversal sending his return back under the table - no frictionless replacement has come anywhere near to this kind of reversal in my experience. I feel a ban coming on!


Open faced blocking doesn't work as well as with the Inferno. However, you need to change the bat angle and the grip on the bat. Also I've found that it works well if you take the ball directly off the bounce, rather than top of the bounce.

Like I said before, I've got this on a very slow blade and it feels superb. It's still early days but it's the best thing I've found to cause an awkward game for your opponent. I loved Insider but just felt like it didn't do enough. This rubber certainly does!

Regarding the spin reversal, all I can say is that I find it better than my Inferno. The shot where the ball went under the table was a block from a VERY heavy loop and I managed to someone block it back onto the table. The opponent was quite far back from the table and tried to float it back from their backhand and the ball just shot downwards and under the table. I was surprised as I've never got to this level of spin reversal before.

I would say that if you were going to try it, make sure that it's on a slow blade as this undoubtedly helps. I think on my special blade or the Andro blade, it would feel too fast. Don't get me wrong, it is still quicker than the Insider, but I feel so much more in control with the Gorilla than I did with the pips.

Anyway, I'll keep practising with it and see how it goes. I think with any of these things, the best thing you can do is give it some time. I'm feeling very positive about it and I just hope that the ITTF don't decide to ban it. I mean if they did, where would it stop? Anti's next? :(

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 03:53 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11013
Location: USA
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 524 times
Blade: Grubba ALL+
FH: Reflectoid 1mm
BH: DG ox, TM ox
Not only has the nonsensical minimum friction level hurt former frictionless pip players. The speed glue/booster bans have had the added effect of noticeably taking spin off the ball. Has anyone noticed that loopers are providing less spin to work with? This further erodes the dangerous effects of blocked shots for players relying on spin-reversing pips and antis.

So what I find attractive about this anti is that it gives the ability to send back top, chop and no-spin, in addition to a passive spin-reversing block. This is good because in this day and age you need an active game. I didn't find it to be inconsistent at all as referenced a few posts above.

That said, according to Carsten Neubauer the forthcoming Anti Special "will produce the same disruptive effect as 'Gorilla,' but offers even more control." It will be available in 1.2, 1.5 and 1.8 with 1.2 being best. So instead of jumping on Gorilla 1.8 now, you might want to wait for Anti Special which is supposed to be released in a few weeks.

In the meantime, the new version of the Gorilla clearly shows the Doctor is on the right track.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2008, 18:46 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
mynamenotbob wrote:
Not only has the nonsensical minimum friction level hurt former frictionless pip players. The speed glue/booster bans have had the added effect of noticeably taking spin off the ball. Has anyone noticed that loopers are providing less spin to work with? This further erodes the dangerous effects of blocked shots for players relying on spin-reversing pips and antis.

So what I find attractive about this anti is that it gives the ability to send back top, chop and no-spin, in addition to a passive spin-reversing block. This is good because in this day and age you need an active game. I didn't find it to be inconsistent at all as referenced a few posts above.

That said, according to Carsten Neubauer the forthcoming Anti Special "will produce the same disruptive effect as 'Gorilla,' but offers even more control." It will be available in 1.2, 1.5 and 1.8 with 1.2 being best. So instead of jumping on Gorilla 1.8 now, you might want to wait for Anti Special which is supposed to be released in a few weeks.

In the meantime, the new version of the Gorilla clearly shows the Doctor is on the right track.


I totally agree NotBob with your comment regarding the ability to send back top, chop and no-spin as well as a passive spin reversing block. I've been messing around with the bat angles and digging into the ball (almost like a short chop like action) I can produce backspin if I hit a no-spin ball or top spin if I play a dig after they have chopped. In my last game, I hardly had to use my loop. I just kept it on the table and chopped into it. Of course when it popped up, I came in for the kill.

The shot however that was winning me a lot of point was a faster chop-dig into the ball after they had chopped the ball. After I had hit it, it was returning quite fast, very low to the net with a lot of spin (most of the time top spin). Their natural reaction was to block it or push it back which popped the ball up. It was then either going off the table or just about making it (but high) so I'd move around and crack through it :D

I'll be interested to see what the Anti special is like however as I think a little bit slower might be better for blocking loops. However I'd not want to lose that chop-dig push shot, because it's horrible to play against :)

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2008, 23:20 
Offline
Sir He-LP-alot
Sir He-LP-alot
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 00:34
Posts: 2229
Location: UK
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
This is one of the funniest posts I've ever seen...

antipip wrote:
There's an old saying that goes something like:

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Is there any truth to the rumour the banks are spreading; that they won't lend to each other because Julian has it all and won't buy any anti loop :!:

I look forward to your review when it comes Julian :D I've wasted a lot too and won't be trialing many more new rubbers. My list of tried anti include toni hold new 1mm & 0x, toni hold, super anti, neo anti, tibhar ellen defense all in red and black (neo the exception black only) and i've tried even more long pips.

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)

Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2008, 23:43 
Offline
Sir He-LP-alot
Sir He-LP-alot
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 00:34
Posts: 2229
Location: UK
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Anyway I did think that Neub. would sooner or later get there.

Looks like they have come close with this version of Gorilla.

Speedplay think its time you gave this stuff at least a whirl.

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)

Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2008, 17:46 
Offline
Unorthodox Batman
Unorthodox Batman
User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 03:40
Posts: 1101
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times
I second that. Off you go Speedplay.

I have a friend with this on order. So I hope to get a knock next week or at least soon.

_________________
Switching back to:-
Tango Ultra 2mm black, red dtecs OX on Tachi, having fiddled around recently with:-
Donic Bluefire M3 2mm black / Grass dtecs special on Perfect 9952SRZ6 GK S-Kk-A(-)6-Kk-RZ 154-12
Well done bat!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2008, 18:48 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11013
Location: USA
Has thanked: 472 times
Been thanked: 524 times
Blade: Grubba ALL+
FH: Reflectoid 1mm
BH: DG ox, TM ox
I got the black version of Gorilla in and got the bright idea to try it on a Firewall Plus to see how it would be on an ALL blade. It was terrible. Way too fast. Getting it off was difficult and now there appears to be some slight diagonal ripples in the sheet from where I slightly bent it back to remove it. Hopefully they'll go away over time.

Anyway, I now have it on a Fibercomp where it belongs. I didn't distinguish a significant difference in speed, spin or grip between red and black, although the red seemed slightly more consistent (that may be attributable to the trauma I had just put into the black when changing blades).

Anyway, the forthcoming Anti Special (with a new rubber formula for the topsheet and a new sponge) is supposed to be way slower and play close to frictionless pips. :roll: :roll: :roll: Price will be €46.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2008, 19:06 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
dingwol2 wrote:
I second that. Off you go Speedplay.

I have a friend with this on order. So I hope to get a knock next week or at least soon.


Would that friend be Graham? ;) I played him last night and he said that you knew each other.

Back onto the Gorilla, I had a shocker last night and struggled to keep the ball on the table. I don't know if it's me or the rubber to be honest as I'm playing very inconsistently at the moment. However, open face blocks from loop shots were just flying waaaay of the table. I didn't even feel as if I was getting close.

I'm tempted to order a sheet of the anti special, but to be honest, I don't think I've given this new Gorilla enough time. It's only been 3 matches with it! However I won't lie and say that I wouldn't like a little bit less speed. The properties of the rubber I like....it's just the speed! Digging it around the table it feels fantastic but blocking is just so hit and miss at the moment.

Is it a case of working out the angles? Maybe. However I do think that if it was even slower, it would be a lot better. I might just bite the bullet and order some anti special......hmmm or maybe I should stick with the Gorilla for a bit longer.

Who knows..... :(

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2008, 19:29 
Offline
The Twiddler
User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007, 17:28
Posts: 995
Location: UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 19 times
S*d it, I've ordered the Anti Special.

Does anyone have the number for EJ's Anonymous? :lol:

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group