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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 13:17 
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brabhamista wrote:
...today you see it cut to 1-2 in men's foil and 1-3 in mens épée per country. For the women it is the other way around, i.e. 1-2 in epée and 1-3 in foil.
...it happens in many sports. The latest sport I heard of which will be reduced was the cycling - fewer participants and fewer events. It is news here in UK because they won plenty of medals the last time and now some winners won't be able to defend their titles.


The fact, that something happens in other sports too, doesn't make it necessarily good. To me it looks like bad things happen in other sports. I like this idea of pipigrande: "Giving the Bronze medal to someone that clearly isn't #3 rank in the world is idiotic."

brabhamista wrote:
...It is sadly only logical the way I see it. Not because the ITTF wants to do reduce the numbers, but because this is the way the IOC are developing the Olympics.


We don't know, what the ITTF wants, but we know, what the President of the ITTF said: "An individual event with a maximum of two players by country. Therewith we can hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep."


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 14:05 
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Smartguy wrote:
The fact, that something happens in other sports too, doesn't make it necessarily good. To me it looks like bad things happen in other sports.

I don't remember saying that it was a good thing, quite the contrary. There is no need to imply I did.

Smartguy wrote:
I like this idea of pipigrande: "Giving the Bronze medal to someone that clearly isn't #3 rank in the world is idiotic."

Hmm... we are talking sports here, not mathematics.

I guess somebody forgot to tell Ryu Seung Min that he wasn't allowed to win the gold in Athens 2004 because he was not ranked No 1 and certainly not in the top 3 at the time. Am I to understand that it ruined the Olympics because the No 1 ranked player did not win it?

I presume it was just as idiotic that Waldner was allowed to play well enough to finish 4th despite not being in the top 20. If you go by rank, there were a minimum of 16 players that deserved his 4th place more than him. Am I supposed to feel that they were cheated because he didn't play to his rank?

Table tennis is a sport and everyone competes to the highest personal ability, no matter what the circumstances. You can bet the audience does not give a damn where the players are ranked before the competition. They want to see exciting table tennis, something you rarely get between the two best players anyway, but that is a different matter.

Smartguy wrote:
We don't know, what the ITTF wants, but we know, what the President of the ITTF said: "An individual event with a maximum of two players by country. Therewith we can hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep."

And we know that that statement is completely in line with IOC policy. So who is the real driving force behind this rumoured rule change?

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 19:45 
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speedplay wrote:
Brab, I actually think that China wants to win 3 medals in TT, cause it seems to me like China wants to compete with U.S.A in the medal race in the Olympics.

China already won that race. All through history the Olympics has been focused on counting golds, then silvers and last bronze medals. US is the only country in the world to rank the medal table by total number of medals. In 2008 they won the total medals race 110-100, but lost the golds by 36-51 to China.

In London China will be even more dominating, with or without the two table tennis medals they will loose if these rules are implemented. They can win a total of 8 now, would be 6 if... China would loose one bronze in men's and one bronze in women's singles. They will loose nothing in the team events as they will win gold there, but neither silver nor bronze as even China is only allowed one national team in the team event ;)

Anyhow, two lost bronze medals is not grounds for China to refuse this rule, in my view. They are strong enough to live without them.

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2009, 09:44 
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brabhamista wrote:
Smartguy wrote:
I like this idea of pipigrande: "Giving the Bronze medal to someone that clearly isn't #3 rank in the world is idiotic."

Hmm... we are talking sports here, not mathematics.

I guess somebody forgot to tell Ryu Seung Min that he wasn't allowed to win the gold in Athens 2004 because he was not ranked No 1 and certainly not in the top 3 at the time. Am I to understand that it ruined the Olympics because the No 1 ranked player did not win it?


Ok, formally the statement of pipigrande is not correct, ranking and wining a medal are different things. But I agree with it's implication. One simple example. If №1, №2 and №3 are Chinese, it would be unfair to allow only 2 of them to take part in Olympics.

brabhamista wrote:
Smartguy wrote:
We don't know, what the ITTF wants, but we know, what the President of the ITTF said: "An individual event with a maximum of two players by country. Therewith we can hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep."

And we know that that statement is completely in line with IOC policy.


Is it? Is it the "IOC policy" to "hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep."? I have never seen any evidences, that such an "IOC policy" exists.

But I have seen an evidence, that this is the wish of the ITTF President. See the quote above.


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2009, 11:13 
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Its just the thing that the IOC does now a-days reduce the competitors in one sport so they can add new sports ,like Tennis ,BMX , beach vollyball ,table tennis
and many new ones to follow (Rugby 7's comming soon , maybe squash , and probably golf) = another 400 atheletes, officials etc. So the reduce numbers in others to fit people in
NZ had number 1 and 2 ranked single skulls in the world once but could only send 1 to the Olympics, Jamaica could send 6 male or female sprinters and do well , Kenya could send 10 marathon runners and all do fairly well , the USA and Australia could send more swimmers and China send 8 men and women pingpongers.

But for World Cups and Open events I would like all the top players reguardless of Country, as it would really hurt Japan ,Korea and Germany a swell

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2009, 12:04 
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rodderz wrote:
Its just the thing that the IOC does now a-days reduce the competitors in one sport so they can add new sports ,like Tennis ,BMX , beach vollyball ,table tennis
and many new ones to follow (Rugby 7's comming soon , maybe squash , and probably golf) = another 400 atheletes, officials etc. So the reduce numbers in others to fit people in


I can understand, that some people for whatever reason might believe, such a "thing" does exist. But I personally can not consider it a fact as long as I didn't see a link to the document supporting this idea.


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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2010, 10:21 
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Smartguy wrote:
I can understand, that some people for whatever reason might believe, such a "thing" does exist. But I personally can not consider it a fact as long as I didn't see a link to the document supporting this idea.

Sorry, I have been busy with other stuff and not able to answer you until now, Smartguy.

I have searched for an IOC documents online to confirm the pattern discussed above, but have not found one. However, we don't need it.

Any organisation worth its salt will not officially have a document spelling this modus operandi out in clear terms. It would just be too damning. This is apparent in many ways. For example, a company employing 100 men and 100 women will not have a document saying that the women should be paid less even though they are in fact doing the very same job as the men. Still, the women will without doubt be paid less in just about any company you look at. Now, does the lack of an official company document supporting this pattern make it a belief and not a fact? No, not at all. The pattern is there, the numbers will be there to support it and that in itself constitutes the fact, with or without an official document.

So you have it the wrong way around, as you are the one dealing in personal beliefs and choose to ignore the obvious pattern. Of course this is your prerogative, as you will want the world to fit your view - which is your right - but that doesn't make it correct.

So what about the Olympics then? All we need to do is look at the actual number of events and participants in different sports and see how they have changed over the last 15-20 years. If they have gone down, then that will also constitute a fact, the very thing you yourself need to accept this pattern. So, feel free to ask me to find out how the number of participants and events have decrease in some older sports to make way for new sports and I will gladly email some international sports bodies to get the numbers for you.

However, I am sure this will not make you change your mind in public, but I hope it will make you see that things are not as simplistic and ITTF centric as you would like them to be to fit your agenda.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2010, 11:43 
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I started this thread and I have the responsibility to confirm this:

ITTF did discuss and minuted the proposal of limiting the country participants to only two, and they shall table this proposal in the coming committee meeting. This proposal shall be accepted in the meeting, I am certain. Next they shall forward this rule to IOC. Looks to me the objective of the proposal is for Olympic, initially. Next comes what I dun know. It is my hope they would implement it in Olympic game only. As we understand now IOC had been doing the same limitation in other sports. So I am not surprised they adopt the same ruling to TT. What I have in mind is: who is the driving force behind. Why is the ITTF President so keen in following other sports obligation?

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2010, 11:46 
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brabhamista wrote:
So what about the Olympics then? All we need to do is look at the actual number of events and participants in different sports and see how they have changed over the last 15-20 years. If they have gone down, then that will also constitute a fact, the very thing you yourself need to accept this pattern. So, feel free to ask me to find out how the number of participants and events have decrease in some older sports to make way for new sports and I will gladly email some international sports bodies to get the numbers for you.


Dear brabhamista :) ,

I can see, you really believe, such a policy to reduce participant numbers does exist. It is your right, and I fully respect it.

However, I didn't see relevant facts. Maybe some International Federations did make some changes for whatever reasons and others did not. If so, it means, there are 2 or maybe even 3 "patterns": participant numbers reduced/increased/unchanged. Obviously, the ITTF belongs to the category "unchanged". Does any IOC document exist, which says, International Federations must reduce participant numbers? I've never heard of one. To me, no evidence of "pattern" or "policy". Even more important, no evidence of any obligations.

On the other hand we have this intention of the ITTF President:

"An individual event with a maximum of two players by country. Therewith we can hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep."


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2010, 20:52 
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pipigrande wrote:
It's such a bad rule.

Who cares if China takes 123. I would much rather see THE best players in the world than 2 best and one 'scrub'. I hate this rule. And ITTF is not only damaging the sport but I'm sure China will boyscott. Rule isn't fare at all! :twisted:

Giving the Bronze medal to someone that clearly isn't #3 rank in the world is idiotic.

I advice Sharara and ITTF,to spend their precious time to find the way to make table tennis popular in the World,not to try to find the way of punishing the pimple players.What is this?Friction limit,not to use boosters ect...Are these the main problems of table tennis?Let players play what they like?Democracy is the main need of table tennis nowadays..Limited number of table tennis players are getting less and less everyday.


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2010, 15:38 
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Smartguy wrote:
I can see, you really believe, such a policy to reduce participant numbers does exist. It is your right, and I fully respect it.

However, I didn't see relevant facts.


If you don't bother looking for such facts and want to continue to argue that it doesn't exist then of course you won't find them. However if you do care to research them, you will find that the ioc does in fact have targeted limits on participation.

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PostPosted: 11 May 2010, 20:37 
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so whats next? affirmative action? |( this is a sport! its not a special table tennis gene that chinese have, the country has excellent trainers and a lot of hard work goes into this and if china being dominant is the outcome then it justified by that. would anyone suggest to limit the participation of kenyan marathon-runners?

if other countries want to participate in winning medals and want to compete with china, then there is an easy solution: become better!

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2011, 08:07 
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If you are world top 40, then you should get an automatic bid, don't care what country you are from!


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