OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 14 Jul 2020, 09:30


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 11:23 
Offline
The Artist
The Artist
User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 00:31
Posts: 1504
Location: An islet off the European Coast
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Smartguy wrote:
Maybe independent (from the ITTF) press could help. Just imagine the headlines like "The International Table Tennis Federation ITTF Illegally Bans Player's Equipment" or "Speed Glue Ban Swindle" or "TT Players Forced to Buy New Equipment Again and Again" or "Shaved Blades Hoax" etc.


Do you think you can make those statements hold up in court? Never mind, just try to sell those nonsense stories to any respectable journalist without rocksolid proof of what you are claiming and we will see how far even the "independent" press is willing to go along with you.

Great way to bring about change though, is it not? Concerted smear campaigns by the new power body in table tennis bodes very well for the future, I think. I mean, I would really trust people using such methods to represent me...

_________________
NITTAKU SEPTEAR cpen | FH: 729 802, 1.5, black | RPB: CORNILLEAU PILOT POWER, 2.0, red
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 13:58 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
brabhamista wrote:
just try to sell those nonsense stories to any respectable journalist without rocksolid proof of what you are claiming and we will see how far even the "independent" press is willing to go along with you.


Of course, rock solid proofs were needed. I would also prefer those headlines with question marks, so that the readers could judge for themselves. E.g. "Shaved Blades Hoax?" instead of simply "Shaved Blades Hoax". And, of course, with reasonable argumentation. Like the President of the ITTF failed to provide any proof of mere existence of such blades. No reference to players, manufacturers, tournaments. No comments about technical impossibility of a rubber to fit an uneven blade. He still remains conspicuously silent about the issue. The same approach goes for other "headlines".

I believe it is important to understand, that the reasons for ideas like players union, alternative federations, involvement of the press etc are the actions of the ITTF since 2000 and their plans for our future.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 14:13 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32622
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 2022 times
Been thanked: 1326 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dr N Troublemaker OX
brabhamista wrote:
The players a already have a voice through the Athletes Commission. Why the need for a new one?
These are the current members:

    PRIMORAC Zoran (HRV) CHAIRMAN
    DESJARDINS Lyne (CAN) DEPUTY
    BOUDJAJA Sofian (ALG) AFRICA
    MATSUSHITA Koji (JPN) ASIA
    STEFANOVA Nikoleta (ITA) EUROPE
    SUBONJ Viktor (USA) NORTH AMERICA
    MONTEIRO Thiago (BRA) LATIN AMERICA
    LI Karen (NZL) OCEANIA
    AGGARWAL Neha (IND) Junior representative
    KNIGHT Darius (ENG) Junior representative

As is apparent at least two of these are pips players.

The committee members are appointed by the Board of Directors, but not selected by it. That is the task of each of the continent associations. In other words, the BoD has nothing to do with who is sitting on this committee, their only power is to appoint the suggested members.

So, who here thinks that a majority vote among all current players worldwide would result in a list that would be more representative of players/us than this?

Here is what Adham said about their role in a previous thread:
Quote:
Yes, of course, the ITTF Executive Committee could raise this question of doubles. At the moment it is not a priority. Usually for these types of changes we would first consult with the ITTF Athletes Commission (currently Chaired by Zoran Primorac), they would consult the players and coaches to see if there is interest, then we would conduct several experimental events and get evaluations of these events and then we would propose a change to the rules. This is at minimum a 2-year process.

Lame, powerless ducks without real influence or power, aren't they?


Agreed that seems like a good list of people, and it does indeed sound like the ITTF is using them for advice. I don't some of the people of that list, although I recogise a few of them as current or former elite players, so am I right to assume most of them are?

Perhaps this is where the problem lies... As far as I know, the ITTF's prioriy is to make rules/changes for the Elite levels, and it sounds like they're probably well represented for this. However these rules can have a huge impact at the non-elite levels (like most of ours), and the main representation we have is our National bodies. Although I'm sure many of these people care about the non-elite level, their priority would also be for the benefit of the elite levels.

The so-called 'frictionless ban' :mrgreen: was one that would have had almost 'zero' impact at the elite levels, but a huge impact among the non-elite levels, particularly in the veterans events. I don't want to get into discussions whether this decision was right or not, but I feel this is an example of where decisions may have been made with little consultation (or say) by those that it affected most.

Yes totally agree with you regarding the Press issue brab... that won't help us or our sport... it's definitely not something I would want to get into either...

I've found this a very worthwhile discussion though and brings up points I had not thought off, lets keep it going :wink:

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 16:35 
Offline
The Artist
The Artist
User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 00:31
Posts: 1504
Location: An islet off the European Coast
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Quote:
I would also prefer those headlines with question marks, so that the readers could judge for themselves.

Like this then?

    The International Table Tennis Federation ITTF Illegally Bans Player's Equipment?
    Speed Glue Ban Swindle?
    TT Players Forced to Buy New Equipment Again and Again?
    Shaved Blades Hoax?

No, those headlines really does not makes me comfortable at all. Adding question marks only adds to the feeling that they are designed to smear instead of exposing wrong doing with facts. It reeks of speculation and looks more like tabloid press headlines than a serious attempt at exposing any actual wrong doing. Also, why leave it up to the readers to judge for themselves? If you know you are right and have the proof to back it up, then why give the readers even the slightest chance of misjudging? You only do that when you have no proof and seek to sow doubt and pass off speculation for truth.

The question is if this is the way we as table tennis players want to change the current situation. I believe not, as people like you are prepared to bend the truth and alter facts to suit your own ends. Your methods have already assured that you will fail in drumming up the trust of the majority of players out there. Why? Because every one of them reading this will ask themselves when the bending of the truth ends. Has it? Will it ever? How will I know? How can I trust this new organisation when they are in power?

You fail because your methods are not trustworthy. Therefore there is no reason to respect your views.

_________________
NITTAKU SEPTEAR cpen | FH: 729 802, 1.5, black | RPB: CORNILLEAU PILOT POWER, 2.0, red
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 17:08 
Offline
The Artist
The Artist
User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 00:31
Posts: 1504
Location: An islet off the European Coast
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
haggisv wrote:
Agreed that seems like a good list of people, and it does indeed sound like the ITTF is using them for advice. I don't some of the people of that list, although I recogise a few of them as current or former elite players, so am I right to assume most of them are?


Googling them gave me these results.

    PRIMORAC Zoran - active. World rank 28
    DESJARDINS Lyne - inactive?! World rank 368, 1999
    BOUDJAJA Sofian - active?! Ranked 69 in France in 2004.
    MATSUSHITA Koji - inactive. Had some small success as a player. ;)
    STEFANOVA Nikoleta - active. World rank 46
    SUBONJ Viktor - active. USATT 2550
    MONTEIRO Thiago - active. World rank 95
    LI Karen - active. World rank 155
    AGGARWAL Neha - active. Junior. Senior World rank 286
    KNIGHT Darius - active. Junior. Senior World rank 280

_________________
NITTAKU SEPTEAR cpen | FH: 729 802, 1.5, black | RPB: CORNILLEAU PILOT POWER, 2.0, red
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2009, 01:06 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
brabhamista wrote:

    The International Table Tennis Federation ITTF Illegally Bans Player's Equipment?
    Speed Glue Ban Swindle?
    TT Players Forced to Buy New Equipment Again and Again?
    Shaved Blades Hoax?

No, those headlines really does not makes me comfortable at all. ...

The question is if this is the way we as table tennis players want to change the current situation. I believe not, as people like you are prepared to bend the truth and alter facts to suit your own ends.


OK, I understand, it's a matter of opinion.

I personally think those "headlines" are justified. Maybe it would be a good idea to summarise the arguments in a special topic like "Illegal Rules?" or something like that.

However, the fact is, that some people disapprove of certain actions of the ITTF and are thinking over alternatives.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2009, 18:41 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 16:23
Posts: 190
Location: France
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Athlete commission isn't powerless according to Adham. If I remember well, he said in a previous post that the AC was responsible for the glue ban delay after 2008 Olympics. It was scheduled first for 2006 but the athletes brought up it would be unfair towards them to change the rules in between 2 Olympic games. The board received their point and delayed the ban.
Now for an Union...Anything which can counterbalance ITTF self domination is a good thing. Someone mentioned above that such thing doesn't exist for tennis. On the contrary, it does exist and it's very powerfull. ITF doesn't do anything without the approval of ATP and WTA.
The point saying TT pros goals and ours (amateurs) aren't the same isn't valid. Because their goals are much closer to ours than ITTF's. They want to play and practice on an equal equipment basis. They don't want rules to be changed every year.
As far as I can see, at the moment, the sole counterpower ITTF board is facing is chinese federation and players who continue to do whatever they want regardless ITTF says. Since ITTF canno't afford to go on a clash with the chineses, they let it be...
Now, will the pro players be interrested in such action ? Very doubtful...It's a lot of hassle for very little reward. They are so few to be concerned that creating an union would seem nonsense. But since the all situation is nonsense, who knows...?

_________________
Joola Rossi Emotion
T64 + Express one


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2009, 02:57 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
jolan wrote:
Athlete commission isn't powerless according to Adham. If I remember well, he said in a previous post that the AC was responsible for the glue ban delay after 2008 Olympics. It was scheduled first for 2006 but the athletes brought up it would be unfair towards them to change the rules in between 2 Olympic games. The board received their point and delayed the ban.


According to another Adham's comment, the glue ban was scheduled for 2007:

Quote:
A proposal was made by Mr. Kimura of Japan as a member of the ITTF Board of Directors to not allow gluing in the playing venue as of 1 September 2005 and to ban the use of toxic glue as of 1 September 2006. However, after many discussions and several explanations by members of the Board it was decided to accept the proposal from Mr. Kimura but to delay the implementation to 1 September 2006 for gluing outside the hall, and 1 September 2007 for the total ban.


(http://www.ittf.com/stories/Forum_detail.asp?ID_Forumn=80&)

So all the Athlete's commission allegedly reached was 1 year delay.

As far as I understand, the purpose of creating an alternative organisation should be prevention of bad rules, not just delay of some of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group