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 Post subject: ITTF new rule proposal
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2009, 18:49 
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I was informed that in the latest meeting of ITTF, they tabled a proposal that each country may send ONLY TWO REPRESENTATIVES in all the coming tournament. If this proposal is to be accepted in the next meeting, and looks like it, the implication is more of the negative than positive the way I look at it.

If there are numerous excellent players in a country, this means not only China but several other countries of different continents, than players will be deprived of the opportunity to participate in many international tt tournaments. One German player has just commented he does not see any hindrance of this new regulation on his tt career! I suppose not because of his near immortal performance in every competition. But what about his other country fellow play mates!?

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2009, 20:08 
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I suppose it's to stop China going 123 in the medals, to help marketing. I would want to see the best players, wherever they are from. It should be down to the other players to stop them, not the ITTF.

I like sport, I don't like business. Bring back sport.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2009, 23:21 
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antipip wrote:
I would want to see the best players, wherever they are from. It should be down to the other players to stop them, not the ITTF.

I like sport, I don't like business. Bring back sport.


speedplay wrote:
We already have national team that are almost build from former Chinese players, and with this rule, I think this would be even worse.

I would rather have the top 4 or 5 from each country to participate.


I absolutely agree with these views. Bad news I just received. ITTF is certain to pass this rule in its next meeting. :twisted:

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2009, 23:33 
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The way to encourage competition is not to limit entries. All they're going to do is make the tournament less interesting. If, say, 5 of the top 10 players in a tournament right now are Chinese, replacing 3 of those 5 players with inferior players from other countries dilutes the pool of competition and makes things less interesting. For the top players, the early and mid rounds will be easier and less interesting for people to watch.

What you'll get is more dominance by the top two players of the power countries. What this is aimed at doing, I'm sure, is having players from other countries progress farther in tournaments, thus increasing interest in those other countries. But I can tell you this will have little to no impact on countries where t.t. isn't popular, like the U.S. All it will do, as you say, is encourage more players to leave their countries at an early age (so that they don't have to sit out multiple years) and you'll have less home-grown talent.

They need to find ways to help countries with developing programs improve their level of home-grown talent. Find ways to get them better training and competition at an early age, so that they don't hit a ceiling early in their development. Pump money into the developing federations for training and coaching. Make it an organic growth, instead of forcing "competition" that truly isn't there.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009, 00:34 
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dwruck wrote:
The way to encourage competition is not to limit entries. All they're going to do is make the tournament less interesting. If, say, 5 of the top 10 players in a tournament right now are Chinese, replacing 3 of those 5 players with inferior players from other countries dilutes the pool of competition and makes things less interesting. For the top players, the early and mid rounds will be easier and less interesting for people to watch.

What you'll get is more dominance the top two players of the power countries. What this is aimed at doing, I'm sure, is having players from other countries progress farther in tournaments, thus increasing interest in those other countries. But I can tell you this will have little to no impact on countries where t.t. isn't popular, like the U.S. All it will do, as you say, is encourage more players to leave their countries at an early age (so that they don't have to sit out multiple years) and you'll have less home-grown talent.

They need to find ways to help countries with developing programs improve their level of home-grown talent. Find ways to get them better training and competition at an early age, so that they don't hit a ceiling early in their development. Pump money into the developing federations for training and coaching. Make it an organic growth, instead of forcing "competition" that truly isn't there.


Well said dwruck, well said.
Most probably they would impose this rule on Olympic only(hopefully), starting from London.
IMHO, if the objective of the rule is to prevent dominance of certain countries,then they definitely missed out much behind the scenes. I personally had seen top world class players put in EXTRA( and I meant extra) hard work than normal people. Imagine, beside the tough week days 8.am to 7pm or even 8pm training, they came back to training camp on their own on saterday morning and even 8pm on sunday night, bringing along family members, to further training!!! :cry: I know right at the moment, this news alerted top players, including Malong who beat Timo Boll couple of days ago to clench the overall Championship, to take his initiative to begin daily training early at 6am although the actual training start at 8am!!! :cry: Didn't they deserve the glamor, considering the hard work behind? I am sure many German and other countries players are doing the same thing.

Allow me to ask a question: during a period of time, isn't the international Tennis arena have tournaments finals played by the two giants only for may many times_ Sampras and Agasi? But the games still attracted great crowds to watch throughout the world(live on court and over tv)

Excellent players like Timo Boll, Ryu Shyu(spelling error, sorry)Min and others had been ousted by much weaker players in many tournaments under the rule of speed glue ban and changing ball size from 38mm to 40mm. In MHO, they were the victims of this "reformation" . :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Wake up ITTF!! :roll: It is a grave mistake to distribute medals through "rules"/"reform". If you fail to achieve your ultimate aim this time, are you going to impose ONLY ONE PLAYER PER COUNTRY rule then?! God bless you.

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Last edited by jixiaolan on 23 Dec 2009, 00:45, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009, 00:39 
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Just talking to the wife last night (Korean) about how many great Korean players there are, but only a couple play internationally. Park Mi Young gets smoked in Korea by the other players, but she does well internationally. Kim Kyung Ah as well. She said something to the effect that only a few players can go, and I guess those two do the best internationally, so they can go, even though there are or may be better players in the country.

This new rule will really inhibit great players from seeing international tournaments. That's too bad.

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009, 06:27 
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What is the ITTF's official reason for this proposal?

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2009, 07:11 
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haggisv wrote:
What is the ITTF's official reason for this proposal?


Adham's words:

http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf_full_story1.asp?ID=16257

Quote:
...the fact that China won all the Singles medals is not good for our sport. To realise that Jörgen Persson with his 42 years was the only non-Chinese in the semi-finals, is something I don’t like. ...

I want to discuss my desires for changes very soon first internally in the ITTF and then with the IOC. An individual event with a maximum of two players by country. Therewith we can hinder that a country like China makes the clean sweep.


To me it looks like discrimination of China. In violation of the ITTF Rule 1.03.01:

Quote:
1.03.01 The principles of the ITTF shall be general unity of action, mutual respect of Associations in their dealings with one another and the inadmissibility of discrimination against Associations or individuals on racial, political, religious or other grounds.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2009, 22:49 
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Let them do it !
Anyhow, nothing we could say will stop the madness...
The only thing we can hope is that, this time, they will go a step too far and pro-players will demonstrate enough to reverse the decision.
Imagine a guy like Christian Süss, current german n°3, prevented from making his living by ITTF. Imagine Andro, his sponsor, forbiden from sponsoring because his main player canno't play...Do you think they will stay still without reacting.
In France, we have currently 10 players in between 15 and 22 years old, very talented and very close. They've spent almost every moment of their lifes to get prepared for top events. What will they think if only 2 of them can go ? What a waste of time...
I know I keep repeating myself for the last 18 monthes, and frankly I'm tired of it, but these guys clearly turned nuts.
Ping pong will still be there after they hit the big and painfull wall where their madness lead them to. The sooner the better, I'd say !

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 04:18 
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jolan wrote:
The only thing we can hope is that, this time, they will go a step too far and pro-players will demonstrate enough to reverse the decision.
Imagine a guy like Christian Süss, current german n°3, prevented from making his living by ITTF. Imagine Andro, his sponsor, forbiden from sponsoring because his main player canno't play...Do you think they will stay still without reacting.


I'm afraid, the national players are completely dependant on their NA and the manufacturers are completely dependant on the ITTF because of authorisation. That's why I don't expect any serious action of them.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 04:58 
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I know that for many Olympic events they limit the amount of entries per Country to 3 , 2 or even 1, So for me I can understand that, but for World Cups ,World series, and any Open event ,it would be a huge mistake to limit the entries per Country as the best want to play the best but also this is the chance for the others in the top 50 to push ahead, (well they can't challenge if they can't go)
I'm unsure if these recommendations are true or not but it would make it hard to gain rating points if you are not there lol

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 09:06 
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speedplay wrote:
rodderz wrote:
I know that for many Olympic events they limit the amount of entries per Country to 3 , 2 or even 1,


Individual events? Cause with team events, there are other limitations, but for individual event's I thought it was 3 participators from each country, as long as they have made the qualification.


No there are many like rowing, some cycling events, Im not sure about tennis

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 10:02 
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It's such a bad rule.

Who cares if China takes 123. I would much rather see THE best players in the world than 2 best and one 'scrub'. I hate this rule. And ITTF is not only damaging the sport but I'm sure China will boyscott. Rule isn't fare at all! :twisted:

Giving the Bronze medal to someone that clearly isn't #3 rank in the world is idiotic.

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 11:29 
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rodderz wrote:
I know that for many Olympic events they limit the amount of entries per Country to 3 , 2 or even 1, So for me I can understand that, but for World Cups ,World series, and any Open event ,it would be a huge mistake to limit the entries per Country as the best want to play the best but also this is the chance for the others in the top 50 to push ahead, (well they can't challenge if they can't go)
I'm unsure if these recommendations are true or not but it would make it hard to gain rating points if you are not there lol

Yes, this is true. I used to be a competition fencer and in Olympic fencing the participant numbers per country were quite severely reduced due to "requests" from the Olympic Committee already 15 years ago. Since then they have been cut even more and today you see it cut to 1-2 in men's foil and 1-3 in mens épée per country. For the women it is the other way around, i.e. 1-2 in epée and 1-3 in foil. The selection criteria are very complex and based on world ranking combined with factors such as nationality and allocation of fencers per nation. The number of countries allowed to participate is also restricted and of those who do, most send 1 participant.

There were 25 participants each in mens foil and womens epée and 45 in mens epée and womens foil in Beijing last year. Pretty dismal, IMHO, seeing as 15 years ago any country could send fencers and the total for each weapon and class was no less than 150 participants.

So what happened? IOC put pressure on fencing as it did not live up to certain other "requests" and way was paved for "the new sports", i.e. X-game style sports instead. The trend applies since long to practically all events. Current sports are allocated less and less spots to make way for the new. None of the sports federations do this voluntarily, but are all put under pressure from the IOC. All they can do is comply as the Olympics is the most important event on Earth, more important than any of their own World Championships.

As rodderz said, it happens in many sports. The latest sport I heard of which will be reduced was the cycling - fewer participants and fewer events. It is news here in UK because they won plenty of medals the last time and now some winners won't be able to defend their titles.

Do you think it is nonsense and not a threat to table tennis? Then let me ask you who killed off the doubles competitions in Beijing and replaced them with a team event instead? And why did it result in fewer Olympic table tennis participants in 2008 than in 2004? What was the purpose of that?

It is sadly only logical the way I see it. Not because the ITTF wants to do reduce the numbers, but because this is the way the IOC are developing the Olympics. I don't like it, but then I am a purist who would like to see the Olympics open to all countries and sportsmen who want to participate, but let's face it, that notion of the Olympic spirit died many, many decades ago.

I don't see this happening in the ITTF World Championships.

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 11:36 
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pipigrande wrote:
It's such a bad rule.

Yes, it would be a bad rule if it is every implemented. Nobody knows if it will or not.

pipigrande wrote:
Who cares if China takes 123....

China cares.

But not in the way you assume, pipigrande. It is more important for China to win gold and silver every time in a sport were the rest of the world has an interest than winning all three medals in a sport were the rest of the world has lost interest. That is the very reason China would vote for this rule, not against.

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