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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 10:14 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Just another example of the incomprehensible hodgepodge of gobbledygook known as the ITTF Handbook. :D :D :D

Strangest thing: The question that Sharara was asked was, "How competitive are other nations against China". Whether China has 1, 2 or 7 men competing in the singles at WTTC is irrelevant. Whether el presidente got his details right is irrelevant. The answer he gave is substantially right: China is dominant at this point in time.

But somehow we seem to have missed that part in order to focus on ITTF bashing.

I thought the interview was interesting. Sharara made a number of good points about sponsorship and attempts to popularise the sport. It makes sense to me that the ITTF would try to attract money from outside TT without succumbing to the lure of tobacco or alcohol money. How to attract young people away from their keyboards? Who knows the answer to that one? But demonstrating the complexities of the sport using technology may be one part of it. Certainly it seems to be a huge part of cricket and tennis, so why not TT too? The discussion around leagues/national teams was also interesting. Schlager in 2003 is a fascinating example the tension between the two.

Good interview.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 10:36 
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Tassie52 wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Just another example of the incomprehensible hodgepodge of gobbledygook known as the ITTF Handbook. :D :D :D

Strangest thing: The question that Sharara was asked was, "How competitive are other nations against China". Whether China has 1, 2 or 7 men competing in the singles at WTTC is irrelevant. Whether el presidente got his details right is irrelevant. The answer he gave is substantially right: China is dominant at this point in time.

But somehow we seem to have missed that part in order to focus on ITTF bashing.


And China has earned the dominance, not given. Is that a problem? ;)


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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 16:06 
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RR and Smartguy, I think you are both misreading the rule. I read it as 5 entries for every association PLUS one entry for every top 20 player - BUT the EXTRA entries are limited to 2 even if a country has more than 2 top 20 ranked players as in China's case.

So 5 + 2 = 7. Nothing in the rule about reigning world champ unless that is elsewhere but if it is would make 5+2+1 = 8.

Tassie52, I agree that in some quarters there is a focus on ITTF bashing that detracts from more productive discussion. I too thought it a quite interesting video, which is why I posted it. I liked the section about technology for the TV.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 17:13 
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I found it interesting too. My main problem though is that he talks about promoting table tennis alot and about how to get the youngsters into the sport, youngsters who have many competing intersts for their time. This makes it seem that the ITTF has a goal outside of taking care of the top ITTF competitions and the top players. Yet when we talk about other inssues Adham tells us they are the resonsibility of the nationals associations not the ITTF. They seem to pick and chose when it's ok for them to take in the wider picture and when it's not their responsibility.

I'm also concerned about how he talks about "bringing new players in" by making table tennis more appealing to them. I'd like to see the research the ITTF has done to come to the conclusions they have about how to do this. I'd also like to see what research the national associations have done around this topic. I don't know about anyone else but many industries conduct customer research to see what they think about their companies products and the way the company performs and delivers customer service. I can't remember my national association ever carrying out this type of customer satisfaction research, or providing any information on the type of complaints they receive - complaints being in essence free feedback and ideas for improvement. AND importatnly for me, I wish someone in the ITTF would remember those who "already play" table tennis and who will be affected by any changes they make.

Seems to me sometimes it's convenient for the ITTF to represent everybody at every level ie table tennis as a whole. And then at other times they like to pull back and say they only represent the "professional game" level and the rest is up to clubs and national associations.

Most of this interview also seemed to be about how the ITTF is being successful in attacting a wide range of corporate sponsors to bank roll the ITTF (and therefore table tennis) - corporate sponsors with a global market appeal and who are seen as good partners ie non alcholic and tabacco free. AND they seem to be keen to break away from the stranglehold that the table tennis manufacturers have on the ITTF in terms of their dominance in sponsoring and supporting table tennis. Maybe that is because other sponsors pay more, or maybe although we talk about changes to equipment rules and how it affects us a lot, maybe manufacturers aren't too happy with the way rules are going regarding their market - equipment.

Either way, I think it's good the ITTF made this video - even it it was more like a promo for the ITTF. It's also good the ITTF are trying to diversify their sponsorship revenue. But it's worrying for me as a current player they continue to seem to be obsessed with tv and making it more attractive to people who watch table tennis when there is already a mass "basement mentality" table tennis playing people out there who simply chose not to join their national associations - perhaps the ittf should find out why they choose not too.

I do like the idea of stats though which he talks about. Especially if they can find a way to pick up the spin rotation rates and type of spin put on the ball and the speed the players hit the ball along with things like error rates, forehand back hand winner ratios etc etc. Might go down the lines of baseball and American football but then I'm the computer nerdy type Adham refers to who likes this type of info AND I already play table tennis :lol:


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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 20:01 
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Debater wrote:
I can't remember my national association ever carrying out this type of customer satisfaction research, or providing any information on the type of complaints they receive - complaints being in essence free feedback and ideas for improvement. AND importatnly for me, I wish someone in the ITTF would remember those who "already play" table tennis and who will be affected by any changes they make.

+1 (very good points, and it's not ITTF bashing, simply the truth)

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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 21:58 
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so_devo wrote:
RR and Smartguy, I think you are both misreading the rule. I read it as 5 entries for every association PLUS one entry for every top 20 player - BUT the EXTRA entries are limited to 2 even if a country has more than 2 top 20 ranked players as in China's case.


OK, if you are right, then it would be illegal to impose a limit of 2 players pro Association, who were actually allowed to play, right? All 7 Chinese, who are on the list should be allowed to start, right?


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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 22:07 
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Smartguy wrote:
so_devo wrote:
RR and Smartguy, I think you are both misreading the rule. I read it as 5 entries for every association PLUS one entry for every top 20 player - BUT the EXTRA entries are limited to 2 even if a country has more than 2 top 20 ranked players as in China's case.


OK, if you are right, then it would be illegal to impose a limit of 2 players pro Association, who were actually allowed to play, right? All 7 Chinese, who are on the list should be allowed to start, right?

They've already released a list of seeded players. There are seven Chinese players listed.

http://www.ittf.com/ittf_tournaments/it ... _Singles=1

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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 22:24 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
They've already released a list of seeded players. There are seven Chinese players listed.


Then it looks like I am wrong. :$

But one question remains. At 07.48 Adham said, referring to the Chinese: "If one loses, the other one is also very strong". In my understanding, you can only say "the other one", if there are only 2, not 3 or more. Is it correct?


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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 22:45 
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speedplay wrote:
Smartguy wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
They've already released a list of seeded players. There are seven Chinese players listed.


Then it looks like I am wrong. :$

But one question remains. At 07.48 Adham said, referring to the Chinese: "If one loses, the other one is also very strong". In my understanding, you can only say "the other one", if there are only 2, not 3 or more. Is it correct?


Was Adham still talking about the WC or the OG? Cause in the OG, there are only 2 entries per nation/event.


Take it back about another 10 seconds he says something like

"So China is very strong. They can come with 6 or 7 players. If one loses, the other one is also very strong"

So yes, he should have said the "others are" or "one of the others is still"....

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PostPosted: 05 May 2011, 22:52 
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speedplay wrote:
Was Adham still talking about the WC or the OG?


He did not specified, he was talking in general about dominance of China. This section begins at 7.12.

speedplay wrote:
Cause in the OG, there are only 2 entries per nation/event.


Let me guess, you did not see such a rule, it is just your impression from whatever?


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PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 00:10 
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speedplay wrote:
I do think there was a link to a rule about it,


In the ITTF rules there is a section "4.05 Olympics Competition". No such a rule there.


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PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 00:20 
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viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12580

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PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 00:37 
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so_devo wrote:
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12580


Thanks. Maybe they published it somewhere else.

Anyway, in his interview Adham did not mention OG, how can you explain "the other one" then?


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PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 00:42 
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Smartguy wrote:
so_devo wrote:
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12580


Thanks. Maybe they published it somewhere else.

Anyway, in his interview Adham did not mention OG, how can you explain "the other one" then?


I suspect he meant "another" one, not "other" one ....especially having mentioned "6 or 7 strong players" immediately before ... his English is not perfect.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 01:04 
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so_devo wrote:
I suspect he meant "another" one, not "other" one ....especially having mentioned "6 or 7 strong players" immediately before ... his English is not perfect.


A plausible explanation. You know, I am very suspicious of everything Adham says.


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