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PostPosted: 12 May 2011, 19:28 
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I would agree... they should all be elected, or change can never happen if the board is against it.

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PostPosted: 12 May 2011, 23:42 
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"ITTF ATHLETES COMMISSION

Pursuant to the recommendation of the IOC 2000 Reform Commission that “athletes should be well represented at all levels of the sports movement”, the IOC encourages IFs to form their own athletes’ commissions.

1. MISSION

The mission of the ITTF Athletes’ Commission (hereafter “Commission”) is to represent the views of the athletes and make their voice heard within the ITTF.

2. OBJECTIVES

2.1 The objectives of the Commission are to:
2.1.1 consider issues related to athletes and provide advice to the ITTF"

Reading the above, it looks like the IOC wants the commision to keep the ITTF informed on Players views from many national representitives. So why sould the ITTF decide WHICH players? Why not let the players decide by a vote? I suspect the commission will vote on what should (can) be brought to the ITTFs attention.

Again, the ITTF has cast doubt on itself by picking half of the players they want to represent the players. Since the ITTF has power over national organizations, this casts a dark cloud over them. Since one of the objectives is to "provide advice to the ITTF", it does not make sence to me to have the ITTF pick whos advice they will hear.

Now MAYBE, this has been specified by the IOC, players pick 5, ITTF picks 5. Could we find out how other sports have handled this? Is it done this way in other IOC events like, badmitten, track and field? Do all IOC events have the same commission to represent players? I do not think it is unfair or surprizing to have questions like this be asked.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 05:17 
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Do you really think the ITTF will pick players to represent the frictionless style of play? I think the ITTF is the most likely to pick double winged loopers.

"I agree, it's not unfair to raise these kind of questions, but, they should be raised as just that, questions, not accusations where it is claimed to be a decision by the ITTF to get their will through, as this is something we don't know anything about."

These questions ARE raised as just that, Questions. I have made NO accusations, only raised questions.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 07:42 
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It's easy to have diversity while still having the players choose. Simply specify the positions. For example,

2 European Representatives
2 Asian Representatives
1 Middle East Representative
1 North America Representative
1 Oceania Representative
1 African Representative
1 South American Representative
1 Veterans Representative

Also the AGM has been over for days and the BoD Meeting is also over. Where are the results of all the proposals?

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 09:00 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Elected
SAMSONOV, Vladimir (BLR) 250 votes (94.70%) ; JOO, Se Hyuk (KOR) 213 votes (80.68%) ; SAIVE, Jean-Michel (BEL) 211 votes (79.92%) ; TÓTH, Krisztina (HUN) 207 votes (78.41%) CARNEROS, Alfredo (ESP) 183 votes (69.32%)

Not Elected
HENZELL, William (AUS) 180 votes (68.18%); BEH, Lee Wei (MAS) 76 votes (28.79%)

Para Table Tennis Representative: Alena Kanova of Slovakia

What do you notice about this list? Only one representative on the list is from Asia: Joo - who is also not a two winged looper. Only two of the nominations were from Asia - Korea and Malaysia.

So the athletes themselves have done a really, really bad job of nominating a representative group. Europe had >60% of the nominations. China - the single most powerful TT nation - had zero nominations. Are styles other than two winged loopers already represented? Yes. Are women represented? Yes - but only TÓTH and the para. rep. Tanova.

It would seem to me that the ITTF having a say in who else is put on the commission may just help to bring some balance to what is already an imbalanced group. And that group was nominated by table tennis players themselves.

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 09:17 
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Tassie52 wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Elected
SAMSONOV, Vladimir (BLR) 250 votes (94.70%) ; JOO, Se Hyuk (KOR) 213 votes (80.68%) ; SAIVE, Jean-Michel (BEL) 211 votes (79.92%) ; TÓTH, Krisztina (HUN) 207 votes (78.41%) CARNEROS, Alfredo (ESP) 183 votes (69.32%)

Not Elected
HENZELL, William (AUS) 180 votes (68.18%); BEH, Lee Wei (MAS) 76 votes (28.79%)

Para Table Tennis Representative: Alena Kanova of Slovakia

What do you notice about this list? Only one representative on the list is from Asia: Joo - who is also not a two winged looper. Only two of the nominations were from Asia - Korea and Malaysia.

So the athletes themselves have done a really, really bad job of nominating a representative group. Europe had >60% of the nominations. China - the single most powerful TT nation - had zero nominations. Are styles other than two winged loopers already represented? Yes. Are women represented? Yes - but only TÓTH and the para. rep. Tanova.

It would seem to me that the ITTF having a say in who else is put on the commission may just help to bring some balance to what is already an imbalanced group. And that group was nominated by table tennis players themselves.


Maybe the "imbalanced" group you are referring are actually known among all table tennis pros as the most level-headed of them all? If you don't have the facts you don't know any better than any of us.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 09:40 
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This whole thing is just a badly thought out popularity contest.

Samsonov had 94.7% of the vote. His entire campaign statement wasn't even a complete sentence:

"Better communication between ITTF and players."

That's it!

Joo came in second with 80% of the vote. His entire campaign statement was:

"I would like to do my utmost not only to protect and promote the rights and interests of players but also to communicate with players effectively."

Henzell's statement is the only one with any substance:

"My hope is to restore player trust in the decision making of the ITTF. The players have had to live through so many rule changes over the past 10 years and unfortunately for us, a lot of these changes have been difficult to understand and impossible to enforce. Instead of new machines to test whether rubber is 3.99mm or 4.00mm thick, we need to put all our effort into making table tennis as attractive as possible to spectators, sponsors and our players. I will work hard to make sure the ITTF listens to the experience and knowledge the players have to offer."

Beh Lee Wei, who came in last had no statement at all.

Other statements:

Saive: I want to bring my experience to the Commission: Athletes' Commission as first a player (I have played internationally since 1983) and also my experience as "official" for the athlete member of the Executive Board in the Belgian Olympic Committee, Vice-President of the Athletes' Commission of the Belgian Olympic Committee, member of the European Olympic Athletes' Commission. I was 4 years President of the CTTP (club of table tennis professionals)

Carneros: To try to make our sport more professional. Fight for the rights of the players. The athletes should be more involved in all the statements because our opinion is the most important to improve table tennis.

Toth: I would like to represent the table tennis coaches' and players' ideas and wishes to bring our sport forward. I think this election gives us – players – a chance to express our opinion. I find it very important to represent us in ITTF. I have always some idea in my head how to make table tennis better and I would like to represent the players and coaches because we-they are very important. I hope I can work for table tennis to make our sport more popular and attractive.

No question the ITTF Executive Committee wants to keep a tight leash on this group by having one ITTF appointee for each elected member.

They won't even allow to the group to pick their own chairman without Executive Committee approval.

Also Henzell missed by three votes. Five ballots were mysteriously thrown out. I wonder what votes were on those?

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 13:27 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Also Henzell missed by three votes. Five ballots were mysteriously thrown out. I wonder what votes were on those?

The thing about conspiracy theories is that they are extremely easy to promote but impossible to either prove or disprove. :headbang: Simply because you hate the ITTF does not automatically mean that there is skullduggery afoot. If you can't substantiate that there was wrongdoing then I think it's irresponsible to start baseless rumours.

A spoiled ballot paper is exactly that: a spoiled ballot paper.

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 13:43 
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Firstly, the uncounted ballots are a legitimate question.

Secondly, I have never said I hate the ITTF as you insinuate. I question some of their decision-making as Mr. Henzell does, and strongly disagree with some of their policies that have had a detrimental effect on non-pro recreational players.

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 14:07 
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I would agree that Henzel's is the only one with substance... he'd get my vote! :up: Makes me wonder if the other applicant even knew what the commission was all about.

Still it's not surprising that the more famous players get the most votes... some would have voted only for the players they know... and the more famous ones are probably known by everyone!

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 15:42 
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speedplay wrote:
roundrobin wrote:
Maybe the "imbalanced" group you are referring are actually known among all table tennis pros as the most level-headed of them all? If you don't have the facts you don't know any better than any of us.


Or, maybe it's not? To quote a famous member here;

Quote:
If you don't have the facts you don't know any better than any of us.


And? So how he knew it was an "umbalanced" group? I did not make that claim. He did.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 16:29 
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Hi all. I'm a little surprised by just HOW much ill-will and lack of confidence there is in the ITTF around here. And I thought I was critical! :D I have not been formally notified, but have been told, that I received one of the appointed AC positions. Wang Liqin was apparently another apointee. Please take this all with a pinch of salt until formally announced however.

I can assure you there will be no gagging and that we / I will not accept any instruction of pressure from above to be good boys and girls and say the right things. I have made my criticisms well known (just see my AC statement :)) so if Adham was hand-choosing the appointees to serve his bidding, I don't think I would have gained a jersey.

Re the spoiled votes, a voting requirement was that you HAD to vote for 5 of the 7 candidates (yes, 7 candidates is a poor showing). Would have been pretty easy for some to not vote for all 5.

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 16:53 
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ttEDGE - William wrote:
Hi all. I'm a little surprised by just HOW much ill-will and lack of confidence there is in the ITTF around here. And I thought I was critical! :D I have not been formally notified, but have been told, that I received one of the appointed AC positions. Wang Liqin was apparently another apointee. Please take this all with a pinch of salt until formally announced however.

I can assure you there will be no gagging and that we / I will not accept any instruction of pressure from above to be good boys and girls and say the right things. I have made my criticisms well known (just see my AC statement :)) so if Adham was hand-choosing the appointees to serve his bidding, I don't think I would have gained a jersey.

Re the spoiled votes, a voting requirement was that you HAD to vote for 5 of the 7 candidates (yes, 7 candidates is a poor showing). Would have been pretty easy for some to not vote for all 5.


I'm very pleased to hear that, and considering you made your position quite clear up-front, it restores a lot of my confidence in the ITTF in making this a fair and independent commission!

I hope you won't forget to keep us up to date with the latest issues that this commission deals with, apart from the private and confidential issues of course, which you can send me via PM. ;) :lol:

Congrats William! :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 17:16 
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"Arguing" or "debating" about anything with you is just not worth it, Speedplay. I have better things to do with my time. ;)

You are the moderator, you check this forum's every single post constantly, and you ALWAYS have the final word. It's boring.

I will ignore every one of your posts from now on.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2011, 18:20 
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ttEDGE - William wrote:
I have not been formally notified, but have been told, that I received one of the appointed AC positions. Wang Liqin was apparently another apointee. Please take this all with a pinch of salt until formally announced however.

I can assure you there will be no gagging and that we / I will not accept any instruction of pressure from above to be good boys and girls and say the right things. I have made my criticisms well known (just see my AC statement :)) so if Adham was hand-choosing the appointees to serve his bidding, I don't think I would have gained a jersey.

Well done! I really, really hope that you are on the Commission, and that the experience is a positive one for you. Yes, you have made known your concerns about some of the ITTF's decisions; it will be enlightening for us to hear how your up-close-and-personal experience of working with them goes.

ttEDGE - William wrote:
Re the spoiled votes, a voting requirement was that you HAD to vote for 5 of the 7 candidates (yes, 7 candidates is a poor showing). Would have been pretty easy for some to not vote for all 5.

Ha! Being a good Australian citizen and voting in Senate elections, you probably know just how easy it is to stuff up a ballot paper. :lol:

ttEDGE - William wrote:
I'm a little surprised by just HOW much ill-will and lack of confidence there is in the ITTF around here.

I'm not surprised that you're surprised. :D

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