OOAK Table Tennis Forum

+1 to MNNB and Reb. an I guess Sharara just refuses to admit it. It is just a participator sport, and that's that! It is made that way. It is intrinsic to table tennis! For people who KNOW what is going on most of the time, it doesn't matter if they use the 40mm or the 38mm or whatever. they know what's happening. THEN it's interesting to watch. non-players just won't get it...what will make it more popular??????? RULE CHANGES!!! that makes EVERYTHING popular. yeah, Star Wars only got big after it was digitally remastered, right?? hm......(gotta love sarcasm)

From a wikipedia page on the history of tennis: The comprehensive rules promulgated in 1924 by the International Lawn Tennis Federation, now known as the International Tennis Federation, have remained remarkably stable in the ensuing eighty years, the one major change being the addition of the tie-break system designed by James Van Alen. (ooh, they made a tie-break system! how insane...)

Later on in the paragraph:This reinstatement was credited by the efforts by the then ITF President Philippe Chatrier, ITF General Secretary David Gray and ITF Vice President Pablo Llorens, and support from IOC President Juan Antonio Samaranch. The success of the event was overwhelming and the IOC decided to reintroduce tennis as a full medal sport at Seoul in 1988. (hm....NOT rule changes, just correct marketing and support from the presidents....)

_________________
Happy Holidays 'round the world!

Thank you! That's the one.

Do not be so excited over the plastic balls.
According to Joachim Kuhn's recent statements, the plactics are going to be employed at the events alongside with celluloid indefinately long after 2012 Olympics.

Considering how much time the 40ball's technology were under development, I can assume it might well take manufacturers three or four years to perfect the plastic formulation so far as to make the balls durable enouth.

well if it's only testing then we may not even see a change. Don't get me wrong about the fun of trying a new ball. I wouldn't mind if things stayed the same. That would save me money on my robot and the balls to replace the old training balls.

_________________
-Teddy

I have passed on some of our concerns to Vladimir Samsonov, who is now the Chair of the ITTF Athletes commission and it seems the issue of the new balls was discussed:

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Just got a response from Vladi!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Personally, I'm less concerned about the new ball itself than I am about the question of whether we are being misinformed by the ITTF and whether or not the ITTF misinformed the voting members.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

I would be very surprised to learn, that the same guys, who misinformed us (if they really did it, of course), did not tell the voting members the same BS.

I don't trust Joachim Kuhn, the ITTF's ball guru. He's definitely pushing the dubious claims of an alleged ban of celluloid. According to him it's being banned because of health risks during the manufacturing process which is about 80 percent identical to the production of nitro-glycerine, and the ITTF is simply responding to current developments.

According to German women's coach Jörg Bitzigeio, the new ball is slower, flies differently (longer) and sounds broken. He says if you didn't know this was a new ball, you would think it's damaged and all the new balls have felt that way.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Is he the one pushing this bogus health stuff? Can you provide sources?

FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised to find that celluloid manufacturers never even deal with cellulose fibers. There are manufacturers on just about every continent making nitrocellulose flakes with different nitrogen content for making things from gunpowder and printing ink to nail polish. It would seem to me that a celluloid manufacturer would also just buy the nitrocellulose flakes - made to spec - and use that to create their celluloid. Why involve yourself in the making of the nitrocellulose when there are specialist like that all over the world. Also, the fact that there are specialist manufactures of nitrocellulose in Europe, the United States, India, China and other places makes the notion of a celluloid ban due to the health risks of cellulose fibers seem all the more absurd. Do we really think that world governments are likely to ban their beloved nitrocellulose based explosives and propellants? I don't think so.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

He's one of them, for sure (along with Adham). The source for this information is the German-language article that igorponger originally linked to titled "Once again a new ball: "It sounds broken."

http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/pano ... -kaputt-an

Kuhn's email is [email protected] if you want to contact him directly for more information.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

WOW! What misinformation! He's saying that the making of celluloid is about 80% the same as the making of nitroglycerine!! How does he figure that? The processes are actually quite different.

Nitroglycerin manufacturing does not use cellulose - it uses glycerin.
The mixture that creates nitroglycerine is at risk of exploding if it exceeds 30 °C (86 °F).
Nitroglycerin manufacturing requires a very specific type of nitric acid that has few or no nitrous oxide compounds in it.
Nitroglycerin manufacturing is significantly more dangerous than nitrocellulose manufacturing and nitroglycerine is much less stable than the low nitrate nitrocellulose used to make celluloid.

The similarities are that both process uses nitric acid and sulfur - though in different ratios - and that the products of each process are a flammable or even explosive product. And actually, this is the similarity between making nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose in general. Celluloid is the plasticizing of low nitrate (less flammable and not really explosive) nitrocellulose by the addition of camphor and perhaps other plasticizing agents. At best, the processes are mildly related.

But even if he was correct, its a big "so what?" Low nitrate content nitrocellulose production (main component of celluloid) is not being banned. In fact it is made in Germany, the U.S. (the U.S. may be only the more dangerous high-nitrate form) India, China, and I'd bet on just about every other continent

He further claims an increase in actual diameter of .2mm while it seems like an increase of .35mm is pretty much assured because typical ball sizes are 39.65mm, not 39.8mm and the new balls could be as large as 40.5mm resulting in a size increase by as much as .85mm.

Once again, from what I can find out, the risk with celluloid is one of disinterest from manufacturers because it is a niche product. I can find no evidence of a ban or any health reasons that would suggest the need or desire for a ban.

Thanks for the link.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Health and safety is just being used as a convenient excuse to hide the real reason which is to slow the game down for tv. As they did with the banning of VOC free boosters.

_________________

Blade: Re-Impact Tachi. BH: Grass DTecS (ox, new version) FH: Palio Thor's max

At this point, that seems more likely than not to be the case. There appears to be a pattern of associating celluloid with extremes that don't hold up under scrutiny. Sharara likened the celluloid fiber hazard to asbestos. Kuhn likened its manufacture to nitroglycerine. There is talk of a ban - that nobody can find evidence for. These associations don't hold up under even moderately close scrutiny. It's interesting that Kuhn argues safety from the nitroglycerine angle while Sharara has picked the fiber angle. Maybe nitroglycerine is safer because no cellulose fibers are used to make it?

These are exaggerations at best and deliberate misinformation at worst.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

They would make good car salesmen.