OOAK Table Tennis Forum

My best response is to point to wturber's words:
In all seriousness, why would I - an aging, uncoordinated TT player in my club's second division on an island remote from Europe and China - why would I believe for even a nano-second that I should be consulted on anything? Why should any of us on ooakforum be consulted? Our combined numbers would constitute what percentage of TT players worldwide? If the ITTF "cares" about players, I can name 2000 who come before any of us - they are the world ranked players who compete in ITTF sanctioned events. And there is a mechanism for such consultation - it's the Athletes Commission.

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

Can you prove, that Athletes Commission either consists of "2000 world ranked players" or is elected by those "2000 world ranked players"? If not, I'm going to think, that we have more, than one liar on this forum.

Second, I was not talking about "consultation", I said specifically "They do not care about our opinions, because they are practically completely independent of the players of any division, and that is the root of the problem." You do understand, what "completely independent" means, don't you? If not - it is not about consultation.

What is your problem in understanding the root of the problem, Tassie? How many times do we have to repeat to you that there's no worldwide celluloid ban as Adham said? Why do we NEED to ask him to "explain" his reason for the change again? He already said it a gazillion times.
My goodness...

Whatever, Tassie. This is so lame... You'd love to argue that night is day just for the heck of it.

Why should I email him when he has already spoken on the topic at length on this forum? The problem is that the facts don't support his claims. Some of his comments are real gems, BTW. My personal favorite:

"There will be no change in rules…[next sentence] the only change, which has nothing to do with the new balls, but is a modification to the current rules (regardless of the type of ball) is that the size tolerance will be implemented only upwards. Since the 40mm ball came into effect, we never really had a 40mm ball, because the tolerance level was always applied downward."

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And the "the size tolerance will be implemented only upwards" is illegal, because the rule states "2.03.01 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm", not "with a diameter of minimum 40mm".

The BoD, who decided that, are only allowed to clarify or interpret the rule, and this about "only upwards" is not a correct interpretation. Their decision should be considered invalid. Of course, it looks like they are nevertheless going to implement that, not caring much about legality.

Jeeez get a life boys and go and email Adam yourselves,
Tassie isn't the enemy, he just asked some questions and they were answered.
I might have been better to say thank you Tassie

I don't have a problem about anyone finding out information, I also think the the whole quick change to the new platic ball may need more clarification.
It may be better to argue with the ITTf and not a social player at the bottom of the World (no offence Tassie)


I thought I was going to pitchforks next

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Thank you for your thank you.


Sorry, rodderz, I'm just a social player from the bottom of the world - I don't get it...

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

Same old drivel from you..."Jeeez get a life..." blah blah blah. What's your life's like if you have to come here all the time and pretend yours is better.
I did not argue with anyone except pointing out Adham was a liar. I am not interested in emailing him to get a standard b.s. answer and post it here. Get a life yourself, lol.

I'm interested in getting at the truth also. I've spent a lot of hours investigating the manufacture of celluloid and nitro-cellulose. I've exchanged emails with a celluloid manufacture in Japan who sell celluloid to companies who make TT balls. They say that Sharara's claims of health hazards from cellulose being the same as asbestos is imagined. I researched international law and saw no evidence of a ban except in toys - and in that case, TT balls were specifically excepted. I've researched hazardous materials classes for table tennis balls, and they do not fall into any particular hazardous category. I've found that nitro-cellulose - the more hazardous part of the manufacture of celluloid is made on most continents in the world and that it is used in a myriad of household products ranging from smokeless gunpowder, to printer ink and finger nail polish. If nitro-cellulose is so dangerous, then these things will be reformulated also. Nope. I've reported most of what I've found on these forums. I've also found that the nitro-cellulose used in making celluloid has a lower nitrate content than that used for propellants and explosives. So frankly, I don't see the point of asking Sharara. The notion of a worldwide ban on celluloid seems ludicrous. There's no good reason yet presented that would lead a reasonable person to think it is true. The Japanese company was unaware of any impending ban - and celluloid is part of their business. They had, however, heard something about the "ITTF ban" on celluloid balls.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Except when you read the change as presented it was prefaced with an explanation that the change in tolerance applied ONLY to non-celluloid balls. So it wasn't "regardless of ball type" as presented to the folks asked to vote on it and as published to the public and table tennis community in the agenda for the AGM. So, is Sharara lying, misinformed, misquoted, or was perhaps the wool pulled over the eyes of the voters?

Also, we didn't have 38mm balls either. They were also a tad smaller. So why is it important to have a ball 40mm and up? Because they want to slow things down a bit more and this is a way to sneak that it. Well, I can't know that's the reason, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there's a good chance it's a frickin' duck.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Adham referred to my post as "totally out of place and a hysterical reaction from someone that is ill informed and not seeking to be informed, instead venting out of control." Sorry Adham. I don't see these issues as hysterical, ill-informed or out of control, like, well, for example the ITTF's unsubstantiated claims that there is a looming worldwide celluloid ban creating an urgent need to ban all celluloid balls and rush a new, larger undeveloped ball into use by July 1, 2013.


In other words, all these obsolete balls will be dumped onto the market at a loss. How is that not a hardship?




Is it a fact that the national associations will not require the poly balls in competition for 2 or 3 years? Banned rubbers are thrown out immediately as soon as their approval expires. Why would banned balls be any different? Also this is such a precision sport, we can't be going back and forth between different balls with different characteristics and performance. Has anyone really thought through this parallel ball scheme?




Has this been actually tested? How would Adham know this if they are still in the process of testing the new samples? Robots may or may not end up working, but I don't believe the robot issue has any significant influence on the final size the ball ends up being.




These bans are always laughed off by the ITTF as a minor inconvenience. Who here thinks all these manufacturers won't develop expensive new products that are optimized for the poly ball? This is going to cost some of us big bucks if we want to keep on an even playing field with our competition, not to mention lots of wasted time to reinvent our games.




A bigger, slower ball will not make these seats any cheaper or closer. The sad fact is that "The ITTF Experience" is atrocious. It's the marketing that needs to be fixed in the pro game....not the rules or equipment.

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Surely this will disadvantage lp or am I being hysterical

So, have you sent an email to Adham Sharara outlining your problems and asking for a response?

One of the things that I'm finding useful in this thread is holding a sense of perspective: I am a nobody. It doesn't hurt me to admit that. I have very limited knowledge of the workings of the ITTF other than what I read on the net, and it doesn't hurt me to acknowledge that I'm ignorant. However, recognising my ignorance but then pretending to be an expert would make me a hypocrite. So, I do my best to take a balanced perspective and find out what I can.

For example, I read wturber's post, including:
and I take these comments seriously. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I do not think that a "worldwide ban on celluloid" is likely. But... it does make me wonder why the ITTF made the statements that are being attributed to it. Perhaps there is another side to the story. How will I find out unless someone asks them. I don't understand why wturber says, "I don't see the point of asking Sharara". If Sharara made the claim in the first instance surely he is exactly the person to answer the question?

Anyhow, I've done my share of digging. As far as I'm concerned, mnnb seems the likely candidate to ask searching and far-reaching questions which will satisfy us all. Write your letter and let us know.

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

I think some of these questions HAVE been asked, and most of the issues that MNNB raised have already been discussed in great detail in other threads Tassie52.

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