OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hello everybody,

I’m a little bit lost about ranking and how it works. I recently moved to Germany and I will start soon to compete here representing my club. They were asking for my ITTF ranking, but I don’t have it, I just competed in local tournaments when I was young.

Also I don’t know why some people in the team say that they have, for example: 1250 pints, others less and others more. Maybe somebody can explain it to me, how to win points for ranking and if I need a minimum of ranking points for competing.

Thanks a lot.

My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX

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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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You have one after you finished the competition, after having your losses and wins counted. First, you can have a round of matches with your team mates who already have their rankings. After that you have an estimate of how you rank among your team mates. When you join the competition you can ask to be placed at around that points. You gain and lose points/ranking when you join more competitions (wins and losses). They have more detail calculation how the points works, gain more points when you win against people with higher points, etc. But this is the simple version. Kind of.

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Don't know how it works in Germany. In the US the USATT maintains a ratings system that works like the one used in chess. I believe the other rating systems in use (including the one used by ITTF for top ranked internationals) are similar (though you'll note that the ITTF has separate ratings for men and women, and for singles and doubles - in the US men do play against women in many categories at tournaments so the ratings are unified). In the US you get your rating when you enter your first tournament. If you don't have any rating at all usually the tournament director will ask you play against one or two other players to give you an estimated rating. This will allow you to play in certain ratings-limited categories. After the tournament is over they give you a rating based on how you do against the other players. Once you have a rating, at subsequent tournaments you will gain points if you beat someone rated above you and lose points if you lose to someone rated below you. How many points you gain or lose depends on the spread - beating someone rated 100 points above you will give you a LOT of points, beating someone rated 5 points above you won't gain you more than 1 or 2. Fast-improving juniors will get "adjusted" before the calculations take place so all the people they beat on the way up won't end up losing lots of points. These ratings are very useful for setting up tournaments and leagues, even for internal club-based competitions where no points are actually in play - they allow for seeding, for setting up categories so everyone has something where they're competitive, for setting up doubles and team competitions, etc.

Iskandar

Wow, thank you very much for the explanation. Then now is time to start and at the end I will know my ranking. So interesting topic for me, thank you for taking the time to answer.

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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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Thank you for your answer. So full of incredible information. Now I more or less think I understand. The only question keeps me thinking on this is if one starts from 0 points and depending of the first much you goes up or how it works? Thanks again

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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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Again, I don't know how it works outside the US but you don't start with zero. They assign you an initial rating after your first tournament depending on how you did, who you beat and who you lost to. The tournament director will usually assess you before the tournament starts to allow to play in ratings-limited divisions (U-1100, U-1300, etc.). You're free to enter the Open, but it's likely you'd get crushed in the first round (unless you really are good enough to play in the U-2000).

Iskandar

Thanks again, this is more clear for me now. We will see how the first tournament goes for me. If I will remember, I will post here the ranking for future questions and sharing the experience. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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You'll find the rules for calculation of your ranking in Germany in this document: https://www.mytischtennis.de/public/imagedata/20230515-Beschreibung-der-andro-Rangliste.pdf

In short: if you sign up for a competition (league or tournament) in Germany without a "TTR" value, you are awarded a ranking calculated as the average of the rankings of all the players participating in your event. Then this ranking is modified according to your results using a Elo-based system. The modification value is calculated by multiplying a constant with the difference between your number of wins in the event and the win expectation. The win expectation is a (not so simple) function of the difference between your ranking and that of you opponents.

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- style: modern defense -

This is a great explanation. For sure it is complicated, but at least we know more or less how it work. With your summary and one time document read, it is much more understandable.

Thanks a lot

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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I think the ITTF world rankings are fundamentally different compared to the US ratings system. You earn points for participation in ITTF international competitions and winning games - these points expire after about a year, so if you don't play for a while your ranking either disappears or drastically falls. Case in point - I posted this video a couple days back (look under "Harimoto's Sister" or click the link below):

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=36235#p404901



It's a Japanese Pro League match between Kyushu and Nippon Paint. This video was made in July 2022. Sato Hitomi plays for Kyushu, and her world ranking at the time was 20. It is now (after just 17 months) 233. Why? Because she only played in one tournament (in Korea, in September) and got to the Round of 16. The 45 points she has were the ones she earned in that tournament. All her earlier points disappeared.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads ... EN_WS.html

Chopper Sato Hitomi is worth watching (the last game in the 3 hour video) but the second last game involved Ojio Haruna (thumbnail), who is a spectacularly consistent chopper. A real nail-biter of a game, too.

Iskandar

Wow, this information is amazing, thank you very much for bring it here. I think, it is wonderful to see how the ranking is taking this direction of more competence. Also great video. Really thank you.

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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World rankings, I think, serve a fundamentally different purpose than the USATT ratings do. World rankings reward participation in tournaments, and rank active players, not only in how strong they are in comparison to other players, but also how much they compete. I'm not really sure how the points they are based on are calculated, I suspect the tournaments themselves are ranked in terms of importance, and you get points for advancing to specific rounds (to do so, of course, you must win games) - I don't know if it is based on WHO you beat on the way. The USATT ratings, on the other hand, are a measure of how good you are compared to other players you compete against, so that they can put you in classes where you can be competitive. The ratings points don't expire - you can actually stop competing for years, when you come back they'll use the rating you used to have to allow you to enter ratings categories (they'll probably adjust you up if you end up beating a lot of players above your old rating).

Iskandar

Rating is your level is it doesn't expire.

Ranking points is your accumulated points from tournaments, but it has an expire date, and yes, higher end tournament has higher points, ie OG gold is 1000 points, while winning a WTT feeder is 125 points. With the current system, it doesn't matter who you beat or loss, but where you finish in the tournament.

Why they ask about your ITTF points in Germany is so they can have an idea on your level. So say, you are WR100~300, they will know more or less where you will be positioned.

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Tony's Table Tennis
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I suppose you'd have to be an elite player to be able to enter these tournaments where you can earn ITTF points. I wonder how the lower ranked players who aren't of this level get evaluated. In the US it's easy, everyone who attends USATT tournaments (there are a lot of them) gets a rating.

Iskandar

Thanks for this clarification. Then as I understood there are ranking and rating. Both you get when you compete. But one expire and the other one no. Is it right?

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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My YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@diegox.longpips
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