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 Post subject: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2023, 23:14 
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Hello Everybody,

Thank you for answering the last forum about how ranking works. After some research I discovered that I when I was competing in Spain in 2019 I won some point. Now I have couple of new questions:

- The point that I won in 2019 still the same now 4 years later?
- With my Catalan ID Payer number could I found if I have kind of international ranking? Or those points are just regional points?

Thanks you for helping me in this new process.

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2023, 17:53 
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Diegox wrote:
Hello Everybody,

Thank you for answering the last forum about how ranking works. After some research I discovered that I when I was competing in Spain in 2019 I won some point. Now I have couple of new questions:

- The point that I won in 2019 still the same now 4 years later?
- With my Catalan ID Payer number could I found if I have kind of international ranking? Or those points are just regional points?

Thanks you for helping me in this new process.

————————————————————————————————————-
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
————————————————————————————————————-


ITTF points are only available from ITTF ranking point events. So your domestic points will surely not have any ITTF wr points.
ITTF WR points now expires after 1 year too. So even if you had points in 2019, it would be worth zero today

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2023, 21:34 
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ZApenholder wrote:
Diegox wrote:
Hello Everybody,

Thank you for answering the last forum about how ranking works. After some research I discovered that I when I was competing in Spain in 2019 I won some point. Now I have couple of new questions:

- The point that I won in 2019 still the same now 4 years later?
- With my Catalan ID Payer number could I found if I have kind of international ranking? Or those points are just regional points?

Thanks you for helping me in this new process.

————————————————————————————————————-
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
————————————————————————————————————-


ITTF points are only available from ITTF ranking point events. So your domestic points will surely not have any ITTF wr points.
ITTF WR points now expires after 1 year too. So even if you had points in 2019, it would be worth zero today


Thanks for your explanation, so clear now.

Then starting from 0, and having fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2023, 23:59 
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Diegox wrote:
ZApenholder wrote:
Diegox wrote:
Hello Everybody,

Thank you for answering the last forum about how ranking works. After some research I discovered that I when I was competing in Spain in 2019 I won some point. Now I have couple of new questions:

- The point that I won in 2019 still the same now 4 years later?
- With my Catalan ID Payer number could I found if I have kind of international ranking? Or those points are just regional points?

Thanks you for helping me in this new process.

————————————————————————————————————-
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
————————————————————————————————————-


ITTF points are only available from ITTF ranking point events. So your domestic points will surely not have any ITTF wr points.
ITTF WR points now expires after 1 year too. So even if you had points in 2019, it would be worth zero today


Thanks for your explanation, so clear now.

Then starting from 0, and having fun.


You are welcome.
Good luck in getting points.

WTT and ITTF events - if you can get in :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2023, 19:05 
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Thanks for the good wishes. Maybe see you in one tournament at some point.

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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2024, 23:02 
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Diegox wrote:
Maybe see you in one tournament at some point.


I think some players do not play or have ever played in any tournaments.
Also , are you talking about German TTR ?
As I understand it, systems like German TTR, USATT Ratings or Ratings central etc ater "rating" systems not "ranking" systems like the ITTF ranking system
Your rank is sort of opposite or inverse of your rating
For example in Men's Singles
2024 Week #4 - January 23rd Ranking list
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024_4_SEN_MS.html
Fan Zhendong is ranked #! but he got this by having the most rating calculation points of 7455
For World Ranked players, the Rank is the primary parameter
But for an Average player, their rating is the primary parameter, though rating may (or may not) be used to show your state raking or your club ranking .

Another important thing I heard is that , in ranking systems (as for ITTF) , your ranking points begin to get subtracted if you do not play in ITTF related tournaments for a certain time or something.
(from 7455 for Fan Zhndong for example)
Also as I have been told you get points (added to 7455 for Fan) if you win a match but do not lose any points if you lose a match.
But rating systems like USATT (or German TTR, which I think you are a part of ?) use a method of point exchanges.
If you win matches you gain rating points but you also lose rating points if you lose matches
More explanation of USATT rating here
https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings
And Ratings themselves
https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings
(Ratings of expired members is hidden with a mask symbol to public but a current USATT member can see them)
German TTR should have some such explanation page somewhere I think.
BTW the ratings are not the same across rating systems. It is confusing.
Foe example I have seen someone claim that their Rating Central Rating of 1500 was 1900 in equivalent USATT rating ( 400 point differential, which is not true) . In this case the player was inflating his rating to look more important to the forum (because most forum member have the illusion that a higher rating player knows more about the sport which is hardly the case).
And of course in tabletennis everyone is a legend in their own minds & those who do not play or have played in any tournaments always overstate their ratings LOL
In the case of above comparison , a 1500 TTR value is actually about 1400 USATT but at higher end TTR rating of say 2300 can be as high as USATT 2500. You can check for yourself
Another issue is estimating ratings by using videos. In ma many cases it is not possible. A player may have supposedly an ugly style such as an older blocker.
Many two winged loopers would like to see a figure skating like rating system in table tennis where a loop gets two rating points while a block or chop gets half a rating points
One of my friend’s uncle used to run one of the biggest leagues in the world (which he created) for four years. He said misunderstandings & anger about ratings calculations are a common place when a new player enters the league.


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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2024, 05:25 
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RMG88 wrote:
Diegox wrote:
Maybe see you in one tournament at some point.


I think some players do not play or have ever played in any tournaments.
Also , are you talking about German TTR ?
As I understand it, systems like German TTR, USATT Ratings or Ratings central etc ater "rating" systems not "ranking" systems like the ITTF ranking system
Your rank is sort of opposite or inverse of your rating
For example in Men's Singles
2024 Week #4 - January 23rd Ranking list
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024_4_SEN_MS.html
Fan Zhendong is ranked #! but he got this by having the most rating calculation points of 7455
For World Ranked players, the Rank is the primary parameter
But for an Average player, their rating is the primary parameter, though rating may (or may not) be used to show your state raking or your club ranking .

Another important thing I heard is that , in ranking systems (as for ITTF) , your ranking points begin to get subtracted if you do not play in ITTF related tournaments for a certain time or something.
(from 7455 for Fan Zhndong for example)
Also as I have been told you get points (added to 7455 for Fan) if you win a match but do not lose any points if you lose a match.
But rating systems like USATT (or German TTR, which I think you are a part of ?) use a method of point exchanges.
If you win matches you gain rating points but you also lose rating points if you lose matches
More explanation of USATT rating here
https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings
And Ratings themselves
https://usatt.simplycompete.com/info/ratings
(Ratings of expired members is hidden with a mask symbol to public but a current USATT member can see them)
German TTR should have some such explanation page somewhere I think.
BTW the ratings are not the same across rating systems. It is confusing.
Foe example I have seen someone claim that their Rating Central Rating of 1500 was 1900 in equivalent USATT rating ( 400 point differential, which is not true) . In this case the player was inflating his rating to look more important to the forum (because most forum member have the illusion that a higher rating player knows more about the sport which is hardly the case).
And of course in tabletennis everyone is a legend in their own minds & those who do not play or have played in any tournaments always overstate their ratings LOL
In the case of above comparison , a 1500 TTR value is actually about 1400 USATT but at higher end TTR rating of say 2300 can be as high as USATT 2500. You can check for yourself
Another issue is estimating ratings by using videos. In ma many cases it is not possible. A player may have supposedly an ugly style such as an older blocker.
Many two winged loopers would like to see a figure skating like rating system in table tennis where a loop gets two rating points while a block or chop gets half a rating points
One of my friend’s uncle used to run one of the biggest leagues in the world (which he created) for four years. He said misunderstandings & anger about ratings calculations are a common place when a new player enters the league.


First I want to thank for the amazing and detailed explanation you just gave here. This is so clarifying for me. As you well said, I’m now in Germany, then I got TTR rating points. It is for now an interesting system. In my case, I can see coherence in the league I’m playing, because higher rating players use to be better in competence to lower ones. It mean for me that it is coherent. I don’t know in international competition or even in national ones, because I just play in this district league. But I’m happy learning about it.

Thank you very much for all this valuable information.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 03:17 
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Diegox wrote:
RMG88 wrote:
Diegox wrote:
In the case of above comparison , a 1500 TTR value is actually about 1400 USATT but at higher end TTR rating of say 2300 can be as high as USATT 2500.


First I want to thank for the amazing and detailed explanation you just gave here. This is so clarifying for me. As you well said, I’m now in Germany, then I got TTR rating points. It is for now an interesting system. In my case, I can see coherence in the league I’m playing, because higher rating players use to be better in competence to lower ones. It mean for me that it is coherent. I don’t know in international competition or even in national ones, because I just play in this district league. But I’m happy learning about it.

Thank you very much for all this valuable information.

Diego, the above statement is not quite correct based on the statistical analysis I did some years ago where I looked at a number of TT players who had both a USATT and a German TTR rating and found that you had to add about 350 points to the TTR to get to the USATT. So let's say your TTR is 1500 then your USATT would be about 1850. The statistical error here is about +/- 50 points. The players I found and analyzed had a fairly large range of ratings from low level to close to national team level so I believe my equation is good for wide range of players.

P.S.: RMG88 seems to be our well-known spammer sJan again.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2024, 06:08 
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Quote:
Diego, the above statement is not quite correct based on the statistical analysis I did some years ago where I looked at a number of TT players who had both a USATT and a German TTR rating and found that you had to add about 350 points to the TTR to get to the USATT. So let's say your TTR is 1500 then your USATT would be about 1850. The statistical error here is about +/- 50 points. The players I found and analyzed had a fairly large range of ratings from low level to close to national team level so I believe my equation is good for wide range of players.

P.S.: RMG88 seems to be our well-known spammer sJan again.


This is interesting. Then if a player from here go to EEUU can ask for having an update of it?

Sorry, maybe basic question, but I was just once exchanging country in Europe, and I had to start from zero, it was not possible to migrate the points. I don’t know if it change from country to country that have their own raiting.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 03:47 
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Diegox wrote:
[This is interesting. Then if a player from here go to EEUU can ask for having an update of it?

What exactly do you mean here?

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 06:20 
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Matt Pimple wrote:
Diegox wrote:
[This is interesting. Then if a player from here go to EEUU can ask for having an update of it?

What exactly do you mean here?


I meant if I go to an other country, I can transfer my raiting points there, for example if I go to EEUU or other country in the world, can I bring my raiting points with me?

Regards

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 10:00 
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Diegox wrote:
I meant if I go to an other country, I can transfer my raiting points there, for example if I go to EEUU or other country in the world, can I bring my rating points with me?

I don't know for sure but I assume not since every country seems to have their own rating system. My analysis was just meant to compare people from the US where I live now to players in Germany where I am from.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2024, 15:38 
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Matt Pimple wrote:
Diegox wrote:
I meant if I go to an other country, I can transfer my raiting points there, for example if I go to EEUU or other country in the world, can I bring my rating points with me?

I don't know for sure but I assume not since every country seems to have their own rating system. My analysis was just meant to compare people from the US where I live now to players in Germany where I am from.


Ok, I got it, thanks for taking the time to answer. So useful all this information.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2024, 20:26 
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I don't think you'd actually start from zero points. They'll evaluate you somehow to figure out your initial rating, and then after you play a couple tournaments or some games in a league your rating will go up/down depending on who you beat or lose to. If you start from zero points a whole bunch of people will have to lose points for you to get to your true rating. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ranking ITTF
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2024, 01:29 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I don't think you'd actually start from zero points. They'll evaluate you somehow to figure out your initial rating, and then after you play a couple tournaments or some games in a league your rating will go up/down depending on who you beat or lose to. If you start from zero points a whole bunch of people will have to lose points for you to get to your true rating. :lol:

Iskandar


Sorry for my English. This is that I meant by starting from 0. I think you start also from the average of raiting points of the players of your league plus the first results as far as I understood. At least I could see that in my case here was also like this.

Regards.

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