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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 13:16 
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Der_Echte wrote:
I think Adham, that with your explaination of the cleaning rule, that I can confidently say that I should be able to both comply with this law and clean even the worst of my rubbers. Thanks. My rubbers pick up ten times more crud than in a relatively clean TT hall.

(About using T-Hold Dampungsfolie)
Quote:
So, unless it's judged one day to be more that just an adhesive, knock yourself out and use it to your heart's content. But if you beat me with it, then you know what will happen ...

LOL. Now half the LP/Anti users on this forum will buy this and start practicing in hopes of defeating you with Dampungsfolie under the Anti or OX LP. Speedplay, add this to your shopping list and get ready :lol:, then contact And-, Silver and *JC* to get everything properly photgraphed and filmed.


Slow down the Anti? My God, you will be getting negative speeds. If the ball will be that slow, I am confident I will beat all of you guys.
Seriously, what is the advantage of such a slow racket?

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 14:14 
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adham wrote:
Slow down the Anti? My God, you will be getting negative speeds. If the ball will be that slow, I am confident I will beat all of you guys. Seriously, what is the advantage of such a slow racket?

The heavy backspin dropshot created by slow frictionless rubbers is one of the most beautiful and devastating shots in the sport. Some players are still looking to recreate that effect by other means.

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 15:36 
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Der_Echte wrote:
I think Adham, that with your explaination of the cleaning rule, that I can confidently say that I should be able to both comply with this law and clean even the worst of my rubbers. Thanks. My rubbers pick up ten times more crud than in a relatively clean TT hall.


Yeah, but where you are Der, the ITTF can't touch you...and has no interest in doing so!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There may be wars wanted with the ITTF by some, but I can't see them going into Iraq to ensure illegal cleaning isn't done on a bat! I think they'd say "USE ALL THE VOCS YOU WANT SERGEANT!!" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 16:55 
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adham wrote:
...In my opinion we should either have no rules at all about rackets, except for some basic parameters, or we should have a uniform racket for all to use. ...


Adham, if you achieve "a uniform racket for all to use", it will be one of the greatest achievements in the history of Table Tennis. :thumbup:

Returning to "no rules at all about rackets" seems extremely unlikely to me.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 23:32 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
Slow down the Anti? My God, you will be getting negative speeds. If the ball will be that slow, I am confident I will beat all of you guys. Seriously, what is the advantage of such a slow racket?

The heavy backspin dropshot created by slow frictionless rubbers is one of the most beautiful and devastating shots in the sport. Some players are still looking to recreate that effect by other means.


Here is a hint on how to do the same with any rubber:
- take the ball soon after the bounce
- keep the angle of the racket almost perpendicular to the table (adjust according to oncoming spin)
- lighten your grip on the racket, almost hold the racket like a feather, i mean use a very loose grip
- do not press with your thumb
- touch the ball lightly with a slight movement downwards
- aim about 6 inches behind the net (the ball will actually go shorter if you have a very light touch)
If you practice this properly, your drop shot will be deadly. It will bounce a 100 times before your opponent can get to it.
In the beginning you will find uyou have no control, but if you practice more, until you get the right feel (how much pressure on your grip, the right angle, the light touch, etc.) you will eventually get it right.

But the most important thing is NOT to telegraph your intention to drop shot. It should be done in a subtle way, and as a surprise. But no jerky motions, please. Be smooth.

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 23:34 
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Smartguy wrote:
adham wrote:
...In my opinion we should either have no rules at all about rackets, except for some basic parameters, or we should have a uniform racket for all to use. ...


Adham, if you achieve "a uniform racket for all to use", it will be one of the greatest achievements in the history of Table Tennis. :thumbup:

Returning to "no rules at all about rackets" seems extremely unlikely to me.


I would not even attempt to do that. I was just expressing my view. Both options are extremely unlikely, or should I say, almost impossible.

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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2008, 23:42 
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adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
Slow down the Anti? My God, you will be getting negative speeds. If the ball will be that slow, I am confident I will beat all of you guys. Seriously, what is the advantage of such a slow racket?

The heavy backspin dropshot created by slow frictionless rubbers is one of the most beautiful and devastating shots in the sport. Some players are still looking to recreate that effect by other means.


Here is a hint on how to do the same with any rubber:
- take the ball soon after the bounce
- keep the angle of the racket almost perpendicular to the table (adjust according to oncoming spin)
- lighten your grip on the racket, almost hold the racket like a feather, i mean use a very loose grip
- do not press with your thumb
- touch the ball lightly with a slight movement downwards
- aim about 6 inches behind the net (the ball will actually go shorter if you have a very light touch)
If you practice this properly, your drop shot will be deadly. It will bounce a 100 times before your opponent can get to it.
In the beginning you will find uyou have no control, but if you practice more, until you get the right feel (how much pressure on your grip, the right angle, the light touch, etc.) you will eventually get it right.

But the most important thing is NOT to telegraph your intention to drop shot. It should be done in a subtle way, and as a surprise. But no jerky motions, please. Be smooth.

Try doing that three times in a row against a strong loop. With Super Block you could!

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 04:25 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
Slow down the Anti? My God, you will be getting negative speeds. If the ball will be that slow, I am confident I will beat all of you guys. Seriously, what is the advantage of such a slow racket?

The heavy backspin dropshot created by slow frictionless rubbers is one of the most beautiful and devastating shots in the sport. Some players are still looking to recreate that effect by other means.


Here is a hint on how to do the same with any rubber:
- take the ball soon after the bounce
- keep the angle of the racket almost perpendicular to the table (adjust according to oncoming spin)
- lighten your grip on the racket, almost hold the racket like a feather, i mean use a very loose grip
- do not press with your thumb
- touch the ball lightly with a slight movement downwards
- aim about 6 inches behind the net (the ball will actually go shorter if you have a very light touch)
If you practice this properly, your drop shot will be deadly. It will bounce a 100 times before your opponent can get to it.
In the beginning you will find uyou have no control, but if you practice more, until you get the right feel (how much pressure on your grip, the right angle, the light touch, etc.) you will eventually get it right.

But the most important thing is NOT to telegraph your intention to drop shot. It should be done in a subtle way, and as a surprise. But no jerky motions, please. Be smooth.

Try doing that three times in a row against a strong loop. With Super Block you could!


Ma Lin can do it, Samsonov can do it, Bob can't do it, but Mynamenotbob surely can. Try it. Not on a hard loop at first, be reasonable.

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 04:43 
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adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Try doing that three times in a row against a strong loop. With Super Block you could!

Ma Lin can do it, Samsonov can do it, Bob can't do it, but Mynamenotbob surely can. Try it. Not on a hard loop at first, be reasonable.

Even against hard loops Dr. Herbert Neubauer can do it, Steve Hall can do it, Fabian Akerstrom can do it, or at least they used to be able to until... :cry:

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 04:47 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Try doing that three times in a row against a strong loop. With Super Block you could!

Ma Lin can do it, Samsonov can do it, Bob can't do it, but Mynamenotbob surely can. Try it. Not on a hard loop at first, be reasonable.

Even against hard loops Dr. Herbert Neubauer can do it, Steve Hall can do it, Fabian Akerstrom can do it, or at least they used to be able to until...


And now mynamenot bob will do it.

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 05:09 
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adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Try doing that three times in a row against a strong loop. With Super Block you could!

Ma Lin can do it, Samsonov can do it, Bob can't do it, but Mynamenotbob surely can. Try it. Not on a hard loop at first, be reasonable.

Even against hard loops Dr. Herbert Neubauer can do it, Steve Hall can do it, Fabian Akerstrom can do it, or at least they used to be able to until...

And now mynamenot bob will do it.

....after Adham helps to rescind the destructive minimum friction requirement. :cheers:

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 05:38 
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speedplay wrote:
As for crazy idea, the idea of a uniform racket is the worst one yet, but I still see that some people support it, which makes me realise how hard it is for you guys at the ITTF to keep everyone happy. One of the main attractions for me with the sport is the variety it offers. Different blades and rubbers allow for a different kind of game, cause surely the inverted players (the majority) would protest if the uniform racket included a LP or anti rubber???

About the drop shot, perhaps Ma Lin can perform it, J O Waldner could, but the majority of the players can't do it. I know ITTF's main concern is about the pro's but surely some consideration has to be made towards the amateurs? Cause if ITTF only makes rules for the pro's, then I understand why the sport hasn't grown any bigger. Rules should be made to suit the majority of the people involved in the sport. I know that National Associations can make up their own rules, but lets face it, they don't, they all use the ITTF rules with very few exceptions.

Further on, a uniform racket would put a lot of manufacturers out of business, as there could be only one.... Well, three if the decision is made to have the blade from one of them, fh rubber from another and bh rubber from a third, but this I believe would seriously harm the sport rather then bring it forward.


Ok, let's forget about Uniform Racket because that will never happen anyway.

Drop shot: You guys are missing the point. Anyone at any level can loop, but at different quality levels depending on the level of the player. Also anyone at any level can drop shot. A good coach can show you how using any equipment. Now, wouldn't it be better to use equipment that allows you to do anything you want? Than equipment that has a particular strength? It's like swimming without flippers. Of course you will swim faster with flippers, but it's not you, it's the flippers.

In any case, I am sure you will be able to drop shot very well if you practice it and find the right way to do it. Maybe not as well as you were used to, but you will get pretty close if you do it right, with the right technique.

Table Tennis is for ALL.

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 06:29 
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adham wrote:
Ok, let's forget about Uniform Racket because that will never happen anyway.

Drop shot: You guys are missing the point. Anyone at any level can loop, but at different quality levels depending on the level of the player. Also anyone at any level can drop shot. A good coach can show you how using any equipment. Now, wouldn't it be better to use equipment that allows you to do anything you want? Than equipment that has a particular strength? It's like swimming without flippers. Of course you will swim faster with flippers, but it's not you, it's the flippers.

In any case, I am sure you will be able to drop shot very well if you practice it and find the right way to do it. Maybe not as well as you were used to, but you will get pretty close if you do it right, with the right technique.

Table Tennis is for ALL.

Actually your flipper analogy holds true for any equipment. Why fast rubbers? Why slow rubbers? Why tacky rubbers? Why grippy rubbers? Why glue effect rubbers? Why hard rubbers? Why soft rubbers? If your goal is an equal playing field, everyone should use the same equipment. If your goal is to have an interesting game both physically and mentally, a diversity of styles is a necessity and differences in equipment allow that to happen.

Drop-shotting with frictionless is a specialized technique and effective enough to get a skillful player close to the 2000 level. It should be irrelevant to most players above that.

If I can make an analogy, in golf, they have specialty wedges and fairway woods to help lower level players. You don't see these game improvement clubs in the bags of the top players, so what's the harm if these tools allow lower level players to enjoy the game more? The way I see it, frictionless pips are in the same category as game improvement golf clubs and only serve to make the game more interesting and challenging for all.

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 06:47 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
adham wrote:
Ok, let's forget about Uniform Racket because that will never happen anyway.

Drop shot: You guys are missing the point. Anyone at any level can loop, but at different quality levels depending on the level of the player. Also anyone at any level can drop shot. A good coach can show you how using any equipment. Now, wouldn't it be better to use equipment that allows you to do anything you want? Than equipment that has a particular strength? It's like swimming without flippers. Of course you will swim faster with flippers, but it's not you, it's the flippers.

In any case, I am sure you will be able to drop shot very well if you practice it and find the right way to do it. Maybe not as well as you were used to, but you will get pretty close if you do it right, with the right technique.

Table Tennis is for ALL.

Actually your flipper analogy holds true for any equipment. Why fast rubbers? Why slow rubbers? Why tacky rubbers? Why grippy rubbers? Why glue effect rubbers? Why hard rubbers? Why soft rubbers? If your goal is an equal playing field, everyone should use the same equipment. If your goal is to have an interesting game both physically and mentally, a diversity of styles is a necessity and differences in equipment allow that to happen.

Drop-shotting with frictionless is a specialized technique and effective enough to get a skillful player close to the 2000 level. It should be irrelevant to most players above that.

If I can make an analogy, in golf, they have specialty wedges and fairway woods to help lower level players. You don't see these game improvement clubs in the bags of the top players, so what's the harm if these tools allow lower level players to enjoy the game more? The way I see it, frictionless pips are in the same category as game improvement golf clubs and only serve to make the game more interesting and challenging for all.


You have a very good point, fo sure. As I said in my crazy idea, I would prefer ALL types of equipment to be used, as before 1959. But the regulations and restrictions put in our rules since then, for whatever reason, are now the heritage we face. So, neither a standard racket for all (within certain parameters like in other racket sports), nor a "Free For All", will ever happen, at least I don't think so. Therefore, my point was, do the best with what you have now, instead of hoping to get back what you had (spilled milk thing). My basic point was also, if your technique is really good, you will be less dependent on equipment. You don't have to be world ranked to have good technique. But really, if you hone your technique you will be able to get even more advantage of your equipment, or any equipment for that matter. I like your Golf analogy, which in fact gave me some ideas I will talk about later. Now let me give you my analogy to illustrate what I mean. let's use cooking as an example (cooking is my favourite pass-time, I am a sort of "hurricane" cook). A cook who masters the techniques of cooking and knows all the basic and correct techniques and uses all ingredients from scratch could kook anything, and could of course specialize in a particular type of cooking and master that even more. But if this cook moves to a new country and needs to cook the local food, after very little practice he will do it very well. However, if this cook always relied on ready made ingredients (chicken stock, ready made doe, etc.) and these ready made ingredients are not available in the new country he will be lost and will search for the equivalent of these ready made products and go through trial and error until he finds somethings similar. My example is not as good as your golf example, but I am sure you know what I mean. Technique is the most important factor. Then the speciality equipment is for enhancement of your particular style. If the equipment is used to "cover up" a particular weakness, then my advice would be spend time training and practicing to improve the weakness, do not rely entirely on the equipment is my point.

It would be much easier to explain if we had a "live" forum. Is that technically possible? Maybe I could start something like that on the ITTF website, like during the USA elections - they used Skype, I think?

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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2008, 07:01 
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speedplay wrote:
Agree with that Adham, and it is pretty much in line with the tread I PM:ed to you earlier, were I claimed that LP(Anti were a weakness, Still, with this said, not all of us have the time to spend endless hours of practice to perfect the game we want to play.

So, LP/anti might be a short cut for us to get this ability, sure, we do sacrifice other things, but this is the game we prefer to play. It's not like it takes less skill to play with Lp/anti, it is more so that it takes a different kind of skill.

I'm willing to admit, if I could get the same consistency with my inverted chopping as I can with my anti, I would walk down the path of double inverted at once. How ever, I can't get to this level with the amount of time I have to play. Or, perhaps I should say, I could get to the same level, but then I would play as a two winged looper and this isn't my aim. I love to play def and anti(Lp helps me to do this.

It's like speed glue, with the right technique, you wouldn't need speed glue, as all it does is to help you to make those shots with out the perfect technique, yet people (me included) complains about the ban of speed glue.

Pro's can adapt as they have the time needed to reach perfection, but the impact on the lower level players is bigger. So once again, even if ITTF makes rules for the pro's, the majority of the players still have to be considered when the rules are made. With out amateurs, there will be no pro's...


I have to agree exactly with everything you wrote here. You are absolutely right. Sometimes we forget about the time restrictions. Of course you have to play the game you enjoy. If defense using Anti is your thing, then fine. I just find that it has a lot of limitations. I used to love playing defence, and my thrill was to be able to get huge spin variations on my chops. I will never forget the look on the face of a top world class player (that could probably beat me under 5) when they hit my first chop 3 feet off the table, and then the next one in the bottom of the net. This was achieved with a Sriver 2mm on a Butterfly blade (can't remember the model name). But you are right, it takes a lot of practice to be able to do that. I could do it because I played a lot when I coached, to give my players more experience on how to play against defense. But the advantage, is that you could also top-spin or block or whatever, without limitations.

In any case, if you like to play with Anti, I say: Good for you. Play on brother, but be the best you can be with your Anti.

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