OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I thought this would be a good opportunity to discuss how we can promote table tennis in our own community and worldwide.

I've noticed particularly in Australia, numbers have been going down fast at almost all our local clubs. The statistics might show only a few percent drop every year (still very bad!), but I think the number of non-registered players is declining at a much faster rate... and since a percentage of these usually leads to registered players, I feel it will only get worse.

Although we've had some great success in Australia thanks to the great efforts of players like William Henzel ("thewook82" here), I don't know if it's enough to turn things around?

I'm sure there are many factors contributing to the decline, and identifying these first may well help to find a solution...

One reason I feel may be that the game has a high learning curve...especially with regards to spin... An example of this is a young junior has been practicing and getting coached for almost a year, and them one of the senior players has a few games with him... the senior player disguishes the spin on all his serves really well, making the kid look stupid in front of his friends... he does not return... Spin is so critical in table tennis, without being able to read it, you simple cannot win the game...

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Haggisv, I would see the ban on frictionless rubbers making this situation worse. I know anti-spin rubber is there still, but I think the game would have lost quite a few players from that ban. I really think there needs to be a very clear segmentation of the rules that allows players who never aspire to a professional level to be able to play with a much wider range of equipment in the game. Those who do aspire to a very high level can still be coached down the lines needed to get there (and would expose them to a wider experience potentially as well).

I agree young players need to be encouraged in the game, but I also believe there is another layer of people that are equally or possibly even more important. And that is the layer that come back to play in their 30's and 40's. As we know, there is a huge population of players involved here. Enticing these people back into the sport, and even keeping existing older players in the sport, really requires a clear explanation of the rules that now exist and why. There had been quite a number of rule changes when I returned to the sport at age 41 after about 20 years off. It was not even obvious to me what the changed rules were and took some time to be across it. I can thank this forum for my knowledge, but not every returning player is going to join a forum. So clubs need a way to communicate and educate in efficient ways.

I think these issues are very important to promote Tabletennis because when players get frustrated from not understanding why they can't do things these used to be able to, they often decide to simply drop out again. Not the desired situation, I'm sure you'll agree!

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I have spent the last 5 years coaching for free at the college. Unfortunatly, I am helping Asian countries more than the U.S.
I started a grade school team that has spread to other schools and is still going but I cannot afford to coach there any more, gas $.
There are hot spots in the U.S. for table tennis, Portland, Or is one. They put a huge effort into the school system, public demos, etc. This will be an upcomming area. It is only happening because of a few people.
It almost always comes back to a few doing the work. I have lost alot of money building bats and not charging for shipping, edge tape, time to build, etc. I bought 4 bats for the grade school because they had no money for the program.
The biggest problem is introducing "Real Table Tennis" to the general public. Every time the Senior Games come around, I call the radio and TV stations. We usually get a 1 minute spot. That has drawn a few people.
Don't know an easy answer. It would be easier in a bigger city. Not much to work with here but I am not going to move to a big city unless I bring my China girl back. Then it will be something to think about. City with a big club, more arts and entertainment, etc.
I don't think there is an easy solution, just plain hard work. Free coaching, time and money.

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Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

By the way, I refuse to let new students use pips or anti. That or I do not coach them. I feel they should learn double inverted first to learn about spin. I have let some of the better ones use 802-40 on the backhand but these are students that have shown an understanding of spin.
There are a couple that are good enough to use pips and I would probably let them but they are happy with inverted.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

The game is aided by people like Hookshot who donate their time. However, for the sake of a few hundred dollars a year this grassroot promotion of the sport is bound up and probably turns other voluntary promoters of the sport opening themselves up to a thankless task. I think there would be a massive benefit being overlooked here by both ruling bodies and manufacturers. There is pools of potential customers/players here that simply aren't being captured because no-one willl invest in them IMO.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Interesting thread guys. You know how interested I am with this subject Alex and good to see hookshot still opening the sport so strongly in a small town.

Totally agree with you Reb on previous post, and Alex you know what I felt with the decline of table tennis particiption and its causes.

I just happened to have done as assignment for my sport development course this week, based on psycholgical needs and motivations of participation in a sport, in which I chose Table Tennis. Based on those psycholgical needs and motivations I had to link personality types, and then with all that promote the game to expand participation in Table Tennis which I just handed in this week. Was an interesting assignment and we had to use participation statistics.

What a fall out has Table Tennis had, as you just mentioned on once again Alex. I knew it was going to get worse.

When I get more time I will add to this thread. I have mentioned before about how much appeal Table Tennis has as a sport, and that table tennis as a sport is closed. Not for you Hookshot in your isolated area if I could say that, but definitely closed in Australia in metropolitan areas as you would agree with Alex.

As a sport, Table Tennis is "closed", and needs to be "opened" up in so many ways.

Even you Reb could feel the closed atmosphere when hittin up in Casey. As a sport, it can't afford to be so closed in so many ways.

Closed as a sport (not in itself): In promotion, in opportunity, in appeal (where it has much). But it is not offered and closed on all fronts apart from mega yet small efforts from hookshot in there influential environmnts so to speak.

Its gotta be opened up, and so much and in so many ways. Table Tennis opens itself up not one single bit as a competetive sport, as to why it is "hardly' participated in as a sport but rather a recreational activity, which is a huge fallout.

I wouldn't even label th sport of table tennis to be "falling out' with participation, but really label it as "closing out".

Hookshot opens up the sport in his area which is great, and gives "opportunity". There is no opportunity in the sport here as it is closed here as I have mentioned in many posts in other threads relating tothis thread (long time ago as Alex and Hookshot would recall maybe).

I say opportunity as it is closed in competition. Without going into it, I will mention the need for representative compettion as I have gone into detail with that as Alex and others would maybe remember haha .

So as a sport it is closed in promotion, opportunities, expansion, competition, endorsement and everything - COMPLETELY closed almost!

it does not do enough as a sport, it offers little, it gives little - It's closed out, and fall out will be the result as a sport.

Isn't there an old thread on promoting the game Alex, that we went pages with??? haha

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Cuts hard, but not short and not down. I'm a cut above that, and not a cut out. I cut back, and am fully cut UP! I am cutting sensational.

I think the nature of the game in regards to spin is a great thing. As a sport perhaps if a player can't play at a certain level, he/she would need an opportunity to play the game as a sport in a suitable level.

If players are spinning players offtable, even if it is older guy with younger guy - then maybe the older guy should be playing in higher grade if there is opportunity/"AVAILABLITY", or the young guy given an opportunity to learn and develop to play against various spin with positive develoment opportunity so to speak, especially if all that there is is the older and younger guy of those different levels. Damn I wanna hook in my speal for the need of representative competion and club opportunity and expansions...a club should be in EVERY suburb bla bla haha .

I like hookshots philosophy on that without the pips. I can tell hookshot is doing a positive and strong work. Top stuff hookshot. Where there is limited opportunity, you give it hookshot top stuff.

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Cuts hard, but not short and not down. I'm a cut above that, and not a cut out. I cut back, and am fully cut UP! I am cutting sensational.

The thing with Melbourne Metro and prob for you Alex is that where opportunity is limited for hookshot, opportunity "CAN" be given for us, and is not limited, but rather "closed".

Reb, even Dandy is closed! It is one of the top clubs in Oz, but yet closed to itself. If you play with Dandy enough, especially with the regulars, you will see how closed they are and how they diss other clubs and keep to themselves. It is so closed table tennis in Victoria.

Representative competition must open it all up for the sport!

or recreational table tennis will rule, and table tennis will not be regarded as a sport as it is more and more becoming. it's gotta open up as a sport, not merely a recreation. I don't blame 95+% that play table tennis recreationally. Open it up in so many many ways Table Tennis!!! (Ok I'll stop repeating myself, it just frazlzes me how closed the sport is).

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Cuts hard, but not short and not down. I'm a cut above that, and not a cut out. I cut back, and am fully cut UP! I am cutting sensational.

Leeroy thats some powerful notions you've put across there, and I have to say I tend to agree with you. I hadn't quite thought about it the way you've put it before, but reflecting on it I do think you are right. Clubs are very self-focussed and set in their ways. It is not all that easy to approach a club to play unless you either know someone, or you have the gumption to step up.

I know it took me several weeks of playing at Dandy before I felt "comfortable" there. Certainly at Casey I had issues with the way the comp was run and it didn't take long before I wasn't interested in playing in a competition that didn't care about the competition structure. All the organiser of that club was interested in was where his money was coming from. Trouble was he doesn't have the business acumen to understand not taking care of your customers (and all of your customers at once, not just the one that is paying the highest fee at the time from coaching) to realise that it would kill his business. The bigger picture though is that he is doing Tabletennis a disservice on the whole, because he puts TT look like an "inferior" sport because of the bad experience he shows to new players by his attitude and poor skills (not TT skills, he is a great player himself). TTV had the wool pulled over their eyes when this club was allowed to setup. Basically, I believe they were lied to about it being a club. I don't know any club where all the office bearers are the man and woman that run the whole show.

The Vets tournaments is also very closed off too. It seemed to me when I played the Vets it was run by people who are more interested in lauding their "power" over players, than caring about what the day means for the sport, especially when they get new players. All I took from the day I played was it cost me heaps of money to lose nearly every game I played on a very hot day and to be told by a fat old ref that I can't wear my very decent sport singlet. Why would i bother going back to play Vets? If I did go back and play I would enter one or maybe two events rather than 5 I did, because that's all I'd stand any chance in. Then I'd think well I'm not traveling all that distance (2 hours) to play 2 games and come home. Basically these tournaments are organised for the players who compete and win regularly and newcomers are really just funding these guys. I'm not going to be a sucker to them! They need to re-organise it to give newcomers a day to enjoy. Don't need to win. Just need to get value for money. And they don't understand this, because they just do what they have always done. Any wonder the sport is suffering.

I agree with Leeroy. I'd rather organise a group of people with tables in their places and go around playing each other recreationally, than pay heaps of money to get little playing value. Now if I think that way, and I enjoy club level, if not tourney level, imagine how players or potential players may feel that have never played in a club.

The ITTF is ultimately responsible for all of this. Of course it comes down to national and state level bodies and competition organisers. But they will take their lead from ITTF I imagine. It seems to me TT is caught in a "time warp" where sticklers hold it where it is for themselves or their ideals. And this is the surest way to continue smothering the sport to death!

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I wrote the USATT asking for membership stats for the last 3 years. No answer yet,,,,,,

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

It is so clear that there is no club structures. Clubs as sporting representations are really left to themselves, as if they are recreational players trying to play it as a sport, but closed to themselves.

To the non participant: Why play Table Tennis at a club where it is thesame to play it recreationally, but with people I know and am friends with? Especially to the new poerson that comes in to that closed atmosphere.

I think there would be heaps too many people that come for only a few weeks at best, once they realised it is so closed at clubs, opportunities are even less than playing it recreationally at home and off they go.

Reb that is amazing your experiences in the vets you described. How appauling.

If it wasn't for chinese guys at my old work that didn't give me the opportunity to learn to play against spin, I prob would have given up on it thinking about it. The chinese guys that showed me the ropes kept me in it. They didn't shut me down and try make me look like crap, as many players at Dandy tried to when I played there.

Actually, the chinese recreational type club these guys were in was unaffiliated but awesome. So accomodating and whatnot... So open!

They loved the game, and opened it up brightly. It was competetive too as a club with its social aspect too which is so appealing as a sport. They made it open and Reb maybe when we get better with our injuries I'll go there with you (It's in Springvale town hall Saturday mornings). Great bunch of guys! So open they were offering me chinese tea and biscuits and inviting me to chinese new year celebrations! What a difference and if it wasn't for one of these guys from me old work showing me the ropes it may have been difficult playing spin when I played at Dandy in formal competition.

Yet even the chinese unaffiliated clubs are closed to some degree and keep to themselves than with being affiliated but I don't blame them.

However, that club was GROWING! Even I was invited to join in with there club meeting, on the first week!!! It was open for me! I was like "what's in this room?" and they were having a meeting and were so open.

Casey I don't think had meetings. When I first went to Casey I was asked to go on the committee as I was funnily in touch with both TTV and Casey when the club began and this was a reequirement.

Until 2 weeks later TTV went away and when I mentioned about it again, they weren't having a commitee meeting. I didn't want to go on committee when asked bit I think TTV mentioned to ask me since I actually looked at starting a club in the area through TTV. But as far as Casey and its operations go, the committee meeting was all of a sudden closed off, I presume because once the club was up Casey closed itself from TTV.

TTV are all about money from participants too but offer no club structures and far fetching opportunity, as with ITTF no doubt.

I say far fetching opportunity cause I believe clubs need opportunity to reporesent and open itself up with other clubs, rather than be so closed to themselves in there comps and closed devices.

Not only should there be a set up represtative club comp, but also obviously development opportunity to learn and develop can be closed too, as mentioned by Alex's story.

Hoookshot, that is funny USATT don't give you statistics. Were you curious about numbers in USA? I got numbers quick from TTA. Being the most participated sport in the world, as far as registered players go it is at the bottom in terms of participation.

40mil play it competitively (Prob 35mil+ from European and Asian countries), not to mention the countless millions that play recreationally which isused to mention table tennis being the most participated sport in the world.

But we know recreational players as these, many of them if not all have not played "real" table tennis as we know it to be. So I wouldn't class almost all of these players as participants of table tennis that we know it to be.

Hookshot, your too far to be affiliated yeah? Weren't you settin up table tennis in many areas of your community? Hows it all going?

_________________
Cuts hard, but not short and not down. I'm a cut above that, and not a cut out. I cut back, and am fully cut UP! I am cutting sensational.

I know there used to be "about" 8000 registered USATT players in the U.S.
Adham has said there are more players than ever and threw out some numbers but not where they came from. While there are hot spots in the U.S., I am curious just how many are joining or leaving the sport.
I will write other officers today. Still no answer.

I have tried to get a place in town, (about 40,000 people) and everybody wants too much money. I offered to start a club with "FREE" coaching at the Boys and Girls Club. I was turned down as they would have to have a paid member there.

One school has 4 tables that never get used except when I run the Senior Games. Same problem, they would need a staff member there. No money.

I have approched businesses with extra room, no deal.

I put demos on at churches during church events like church garage sales but they don't want to open the doors during the week.

I put on demos at outside Art Shows, (I am an artist) You are at the mercy of the weather and wind at these. This drew attention but never anybody with a place to play.

For several years I drove 20 miles to a little town and had after school table tennis lessons at a grade school. Had 35 kids from 2nd to 6th grade. They loved it but never once did any parents show untill time to pick up the kids.

My best success is at the college. I start a club every year. I coach anybody, build bats even have our own little tourneys. You have no idea how many hours I put in coaching people that will never be any good. I have made some very good players also. I never refuse to help someone no matter how little they know. There is only one person I told to take up another sport. I could tell him something 1000 times and he would still not do it. I finally refused to help him. he is the only one. Last year we joined the NCTTA and had people go to a tourney in another college. I used to coach there also, (30 miles) but they would not pay for my gas so I had to quit doing that. There was a guy (a visiting professor) from Denmark that would be rated OVER 2400 and when I quit going, he quit playing as most of the students there were 1100 type players.

I travel 100 to 300 miles for the nearest tourneys. When I get back from China, I plan to go to the Huntsman World Senior Games (and look for tats buddy ) and the Nats.

Anybody that has tried to start table tennis even in a larger town will know just how tough it is. Very hard.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

There is alot of info on the USATT site but when I click on some pages, if it is a PDF file, my computer goes whacko and I have to reboot,,,5 minutes.
Can't read a PDF file. The info I want might be on the site for membership.
Still no answer.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

That's a good idea! I'll contact ours as well.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

let us know the stats when you find guys. It'll be interesting to see the fall out stats, especially from associations (clubs). Very hesitant to call them associations, no...just closed clubs haha .

_________________
Cuts hard, but not short and not down. I'm a cut above that, and not a cut out. I cut back, and am fully cut UP! I am cutting sensational.