OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 26 May 2024, 21:05


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 229 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2024, 21:26 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 21:31
Posts: 440
Location: Catalonia
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times
Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX
For me isn't any problem if you disagree, I can't agree if you disqualify the others because aren't pros....that's I feel your disrespectful behaviour.

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 04 Apr 2024, 21:39 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 1035
Has thanked: 247 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
Attachment:
fakir-1.jpg
fakir-1.jpg [ 146.4 KiB | Viewed 1222 times ]



This is our saviour !!! thanks Der Material Spezialist


Attachments:
fakirBelagViolett-3.jpg
fakirBelagViolett-3.jpg [ 12.29 KiB | Viewed 1222 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2024, 19:20 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10697
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1387 times
merlin el mago wrote:
For me isn't any problem if you disagree, I can't agree if you disqualify the others because aren't pros....that's I feel your disrespectful behaviour.


I'm simply saying I'm not convinced. And I'm not convinced because he's giving an opinion about the abilities of international class players to do a certain thing. If he was stating an opinion about a certain type of rubber that he's used a lot, that is one thing, to say that international class players (let alone someone ranked in the top 30 in the world) are incapable of doing a certain something with that rubber is another. To have an opinion of that sort and be believed, he'd have to have involvement with play at that level, either as a player or as a coach. Maybe these players know something he doesn't, no matter how much he's practiced. He's welcome to have his opinion, I'm simply saying I don't buy it, and why I don't buy it.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2024, 19:25 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10697
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1387 times
charmander defender wrote:
I watched A LOT OF videos where Manika blocked scandsalously high and long to be a pro like many of you say, with many hard hours of training.It can also be implied that there are 2 types of hard work : one hard work by pros and another different hard work from amateurs.This can be easily implied by Iskandar's or Rob M's observations ,which I do not agree at all .


Maybe she has a technique that you don't know about? That her coaches know about but you don't? Could be anything, perhaps a very loose grip, or some subtle bat movement imperceptible on videos? Or just an exceptional amount of touch? Yes, I do think her "hard work" and yours, and her abilities and yours, are different because she has higher level coaches and knows some techniques you might not know about. Otherwise you'd be at her level.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, it's just that I'm not convinced by this argument that your opinion is correct because you've practiced a lot. Your opinion seems pretty absolute, and it's about the abilities of a player with abilities far beyond your own. As I said, maybe she knows something you don't.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2024, 19:49 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 21:31
Posts: 440
Location: Catalonia
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times
Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX
Still you don't understand the physics law......

BTW he stated a change in her way of play so only different is the material no discussions here it's a fact!

Nothing misterious to me, possible for you because you don't have the skills and techniques involved.

Showing a lot of high level table tennis players in competition you can learn how to do the proper skills for each hit and strategy, now I can see why one pro player lost a point or a match also you learn that a strong mind is necessary.

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2024, 08:53 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 1035
Has thanked: 247 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
iskandar taib wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
I watched A LOT OF videos where Manika blocked scandsalously high and long to be a pro like many of you say, with many hard hours of training.It can also be implied that there are 2 types of hard work : one hard work by pros and another different hard work from amateurs.This can be easily implied by Iskandar's or Rob M's observations ,which I do not agree at all .


Maybe she has a technique that you don't know about? That her coaches know about but you don't? Could be anything, perhaps a very loose grip, or some subtle bat movement imperceptible on videos? Or just an exceptional amount of touch? Yes, I do think her "hard work" and yours, and her abilities and yours, are different because she has higher level coaches and knows some techniques you might not know about. Otherwise you'd be at her level.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, it's just that I'm not convinced by this argument that your opinion is correct because you've practiced a lot. Your opinion seems pretty absolute, and it's about the abilities of a player with abilities far beyond your own. As I said, maybe she knows something you don't.

Iskandar



It seems you keep NOT understanding my reasoning.If she has a new technique, then, why didn't the coach teach her to block short and low with such a fast equipment during the training sessions prior to those tournaments where she blocked SCANDALOUSLY high and long?

That's why I said she must have changed the blade or tweaked it.I did not put her down or undervalue her hard work. etc....

Of course,If I had her coach , I would know many things better but the theory of the impossibility of consistently blocking short and low with a fresh D.techs and a Viscaria and the like is right .Talk to some high level blockers and they will tell you they do not use the new D,techs because it has a much higher trajectory than the old version ,then , use a fast blade, it is impossible!...... you must be Harry Potter to block low and short.

Again,your theory on the high level coaches is also wrong.There are fantastic coaches who know a lot about TT but they are very bad players,It also happens in soccer, i.e the Portuguese Mourinho.

Therefore, even though I am not at her level,my opinion can be as valid as any pro coach and if It seems pretty absolute, fine......... chances are it really is !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2024, 11:04 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 19:53
Posts: 228
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Blade: Nittaku: Shake Defense
FH: Andro: Rasanter R48 1.7
BH: Spinlord: Leviathan 1A ox
charmander defender wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
I watched A LOT OF videos where Manika blocked scandsalously high and long to be a pro like many of you say, with many hard hours of training.It can also be implied that there are 2 types of hard work : one hard work by pros and another different hard work from amateurs.This can be easily implied by Iskandar's or Rob M's observations ,which I do not agree at all .


Maybe she has a technique that you don't know about? That her coaches know about but you don't? Could be anything, perhaps a very loose grip, or some subtle bat movement imperceptible on videos? Or just an exceptional amount of touch? Yes, I do think her "hard work" and yours, and her abilities and yours, are different because she has higher level coaches and knows some techniques you might not know about. Otherwise you'd be at her level.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, it's just that I'm not convinced by this argument that your opinion is correct because you've practiced a lot. Your opinion seems pretty absolute, and it's about the abilities of a player with abilities far beyond your own. As I said, maybe she knows something you don't.

Iskandar



It seems you keep NOT understanding my reasoning.If she has a new technique, then, why didn't the coach teach her to block short and low with such a fast equipment during the training sessions prior to those tournaments where she blocked SCANDALOUSLY high and long?

That's why I said she must have changed the blade or tweaked it.I did not put her down or undervalue her hard work. etc....

Of course,If I had her coach , I would know many things better but the theory of the impossibility of consistently blocking short and low with a fresh D.techs and a Viscaria and the like is right .Talk to some high level blockers and they will tell you they do not use the new D,techs because it has a much higher trajectory than the old version ,then , use a fast blade, it is impossible!...... you must be Harry Potter to block low and short.

Again,your theory on the high level coaches is also wrong.There are fantastic coaches who know a lot about TT but they are very bad players,It also happens in soccer, i.e the Portuguese Mourinho.

Therefore, even though I am not at her level,my opinion can be as valid as any pro coach and if It seems pretty absolute, fine......... chances are it really is !



Charmander I have to ask you a question! Do you sincerely believe that your "opinion can be as valid as any pro coach"??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2024, 21:33 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 21:31
Posts: 440
Location: Catalonia
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times
Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX
Not always good players are good coaches & V. V.

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2024, 09:51 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 1035
Has thanked: 247 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
Rob M wrote:

Charmander I have to ask you a question! Do you sincerely believe that your "opinion can be as valid as any pro coach"??


Of course not! Any pro coach IS wiser and
More experienced than me.

However,I challenge anyone to prove if my theory IS completely wrong.

Manika has improved her Game a lot if you compare the tournament at Incheon with the previous ones

My theory IS that she tweaked the Blade or she uses a different one now .

Let me Also say thanks to you and Iskandar for this interesting discussion .

I do feel these Sort of mild arguments give more life to our forum .Imho,the BEST in the world.

Thanks to Haggis and the rest of the staff.Also,thanks to all the great contributors in this forum whether they agree with my views or not and whether they have a good or bad opinion about me. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2024, 13:42 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 27 Aug 2019, 17:31
Posts: 9
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Look at this.

Block month ago with WANG Yidi - https://youtu.be/6Qz9k1IymbQ?t=246 (4:06)
Block week ago with Hina HAYATA - https://youtu.be/e2b8gk6kXf8?t=68 (1:08)

The block technique differs significantly (better to look at the 0.25 speed).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2024, 21:26 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 1035
Has thanked: 247 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
sk123 wrote:
Look at this.

Block month ago with WANG Yidi - https://youtu.be/6Qz9k1IymbQ?t=246 (4:06)
Block week ago with Hina HAYATA - https://youtu.be/e2b8gk6kXf8?t=68 (1:08)

The block technique differs significantly (better to look at the 0.25 speed).


Thank you for your observations.I do agree with you.However,please. do notice how the ball against WANG pings off significantly differently too .The ball pings off much slower against Hayata .

The blocking technique and a modification in the blade or , rather, a different blade is at stake here .

Let me also remind you that the speed of a LP can be reduced too- I think it is legal to make the back side of the rubber less elastic ,which might help tremendously for her to block shorter.

I am not implying she has done this , I am not putting down her hard work either but there exists a possibility of this happening too.

Iskandar , I know this for a fact because I did try this myself with a red D.techs when I tested it a few years ago.You can reduce the speed of any LP by 30/ 40 % if you can make the back side less elastic .


This is the REASON why, Matt Pimple, I posted the video on the inspector and how ridiculous all the process is when they do not see - or rather do not want to see - the REALITY of TT, which is PRECISELY underneath the OX rubber or the sponge .

So to sum it all up , the great blocking at Incheon might, could, may be the result of a better technique , the large amount of hard training hours , the modification or change of blade plus the possibility of making the rubber less elastic on the backside.The topsheet can be legal but WHO KNOWS what pro or amateurs do on the back side of the rubber?

Sorry if some of you think I do not value her skills.I really do but I do not buy that her improvements, especially in such a SHORT time .are just the result of one part of the equation .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2024, 16:44 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 21:31
Posts: 440
Location: Catalonia
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 46 times
Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2024, 02:26 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 1035
Has thanked: 247 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
Sorry,guys! Manika blocking scandalously long again.Hence, my theory was right.It was not her technique at Incheon,was it? it was the material.

Then, how can you explain these long blocks now? .

Just a post to nicely have discussions :angel:



I hope you won't feel offended but the fantasy of a brand new Viscaria plus fast D,tchs is not a great combination even for a pro .
The discussion was about blocking short and low with a fast setup .I did not say you cannot compete well with that kind of material .However, one thing is to compete well and beating opponents is a different story, let alone the crux of the matter : in my opinion it is IMPOSSIBLE to block short and low CONSISTENTLY with a fast blade and rubber unless you tweak the blade or the rubber.This video clip proves, then, she has changed the material again. If not, how can you explain the long blocks now? and the blocks missing the table?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2024, 22:59 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 4077
Location: Belgium
Has thanked: 1216 times
Been thanked: 583 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 soft R
BH: TSP P1-R 1,5 B
charmander defender wrote:
Sorry,guys! Manika blocking scandalously long again.Hence, my theory was right.It was not her technique at Incheon,was it? it was the material.

Then, how can you explain these long blocks now? .


My best guess is that it's a combination of a different table surface and eating too much red meat the evening before the game. I could be wrong, though. :rofl:

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2024, 08:47 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 13:20
Posts: 912
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 164 times
It is rumoured that she is vegetarian :lol: which adds another dimension to this matter or not! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 229 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group