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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2022, 15:59 
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Mayu Yamamoto (山本 真由) Japan
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Special
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 64
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs 0.5

Captain of the Doshisha University table tennis team in Japan.

Vs. Hina Hayata

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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 04:10 
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Before I talk about Mayu, let me congratulate Tibhar on releasing Green Grass Dtec and raking in the money I am not sure if there had been rubber in the history of the sport that had made so much sales purely appealing to the vanities of table-tennis masses, since all that seems to be different is the rubber color. But by timing the release perfectly and some great marketing it looks like Tibhar has achieved great success with this brilliant gimmick ! Probably a lesson for other manufacturers & maybe they can get Benedette Szocs & Igor to promote a new long pips rubber in pink color.
Watching this video made me extremely sad more than anything else. Ok I understand Hina Hayata is probably one or two levels above Mayu. But I have to be honest in that the coach who is letting Mayu use Grass DTecs, which is a blocking long pip & not a chopping long pip, is guilty of some serious coaching malpractice. Mayu can get away with players at her level (two levels below Hana) but that is not going to work against players at level 1. Maybe Mayu was playing more all around with her LP side with more hitting using LP side against players her level or lower but players at top level like Hina are just not going to give you a chance to attack. This is also the problem with most short pips choppers at any level, which is why they can get away with players at their own levels but not against players one or two levels above. This is the case with players like Hou Yingchao. As great as he is Ma Long just destroyed him badly. Consider Joo Sehyuk > how often do you see him attack using his long pips side against top 10 players ? Very rarely. Almost 99% of Joo;s attacks against top 10 players come from his forehand side.
I also totally undestand taht often players choose their rubbers based on waht they are comfortable with but sometimes your have to be more logical rather than emotional while choosing a rubber best suited for your style. Choosing a green rubber is not really NOT the issue here
My point is that Mayu is definitely playing below her potential by using a close to the blocking type long pip for her away from the table chopping style. This is a big joke. Even Feint Long 3 , the most popular rubber for away from the table chopping (but definitely far from the best since rubbers like KTL Stranger are far superior) is a joke in the 40+ plastic ball domain.
Ok I also understand that Japanese culture is obsessively obedient to law and order & Mayu’s coach was probably using the best available Japanese or European rubbers that are on ITTF’s LARC (Seems to me that Japanese won’t use Chinese rubbers). This also probably the issue with Mimi Ito & her coach (Compare Mima Ito to Deng Yaping) But even then Mayu should not be using a blocking type long pips like Grass Dtec. Granted you can chop using Grass Dtec but Dtec is just not an away from the table chopping rubber. Mayu should be using at worst Feint Long 3 which sadly is the best available chopping rubber (though still totally useless in the 40+ plastic ball era).
When Mayu tried to return lots of balls that were loop-killed really really hard by Hina (with lots of spin and speed) , almost all of Mayu’s returns go down into the bottom of the net. This is the sinking effect built into blocking type long pips like Grass DTec, Dragon Talon, 388D etc. These rubbers are built for close to the table blocking NOT away from the table chopping. I have tried all these 3 rubbers and they are great if I am close to the table and even for chops against receiving medium spin loops but everytime I try to chop away from the table against an incoming hard spun loopkill the ball goes to the bottom of the net however high I aim the return.
Maybe Tibhar has othe LP rubbers such as Extra Long or Mythik that are better suited for away from tehe table choppers, i don't know as I have noot tested them. But my point is that Grass Dtec is only good for at teh table blackers like Manika Batra etc & definitely not for away from table choppers
As a chopper I used to use KTL Stranger, which to me is the best chopping rubber out there. Even if Feint Long 3 is better than KTL Stranger , I will not use Butterfly products as a matter of principle, since Butterfly abandoned all the top choppers (in fact every chopper) when ITTF passed the 1998 Duran Aspect Ratio Massacre. Of course Feint Long Classic is probably the best chopping rubber of all time and used by every top chopper at high levels before the most infamous regulation in table tennis history, the Durban Aspect Ratio Masscre banned it. This is why I strongly urge all pips and anti players to not buy any Japanese rubbers like Feint Long 3 or any European rubbers like Dr.Neubauer rubbers or blades. You can always find a Chinese or Indonesian rubber or blade or rubber that is more than good enough in quality for an amateur player. Yes brands like Butterfly & Stiga are the gold standard and have much better quality control but amateurs just don’t need them. Amateurs should stop subsidizing the pros who get these rubbers / blades for free at the expense of star stuck vain amateurs. The quality from China may not be that good but is much better now & is constantly improving. Also they allow manufacture and use of high aspect ratio long pips in China & Indonesia. Long pips players must be supporting these manufacturers in China & Indonesia & not the European & Japanese products.
I was using KTL Stranger because after 1998, since no high Aspect Ratio Long Pips were available and 3 more rule / regulation changes occurred after 1998 (not including 2008 Frictionless Pips ban) rendering 1.1 AR (Aspect Ratio) rubbers a total joke. Some high AR rubbers came from China about 6 or 7 years ago such as the Large Pip and High AR 388D & Globe 979 but looks like ITTF had bullied Dawei into not making them anymore. Also the pips on these rubbers broke after 3 or 4 sessions (I am not talking about treated small pip 388-D expanded to large AR pips…….they are garbage) .
But China has come up with many second generation High AR rubbers which are better but still they is not a single High AR rubber that is as good as Feint Long Classic in the 38 mm ball era. I am using the best available one now, called Magic 77 from China, There are few other blocking type High AR rubbers from China that are very good for at the table players, such as Mo Wang 3 & Avalox Mo.
Of course every long pips rubber claims to have maximum disruption, maximum attack, maximum all round play & maximum back spin LOL
I would like to try the many High AR rubbers from Indonesia to see if there is a good one for choppers but I am unable to buy them.
It really is not that difficult to distinguish between a chopping type long pip & blocking type long pips. Yes there are 4 or 6 parameters that define the behavior of long pips but as soon as you see the top of the pips smooth (like 388D) and not rough (like Feint Long) you can safely assume that rubber is a blocking type long pips (often disruption maximizing) and not a chopping type long pips ( like Feint Long before it was massacred by Durban 1998 AR Regulation) .
All the top choppers before Durban 1998 massacre chose Feint Long classic NOT because they thought they can trick opponents with disruption but because it was the least disruptive (meaning most controllable) & yet ITTF banned it because they wanted to ban TSP P1 Curl & many Neubauer rubbers but strangely, Phantom 007 & Double Fish 1615 (both are quite disruptive) escaped both 1998 & 2008 bans & remain approved as of today.


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 05:38 
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Joo used to chop with d.tecs, so it can't be all that bad. And yes, the chopper is levels below Hina. So it doesn't much matter what pip she uses! Skill gap too great

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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 23:30 
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Maybe if she used a suitble rubber,she would at least compete better.Meg_Laning is right in many of his observations.

It is really a miracle that choppers exist at pro levels nowadays.

If you ask me, the only thing a chopper can do to try to improve their equipment is to modify the sponge
as the ITTF will never be able to prove that a chopper is modifying equipment under the rubber .

Let's be honest here, the main secret of equipment tuning is to modify the sponge.That's why your fresh Feint,Curl or whichever rubber will play differently from some of the pros .

It is legal to change the original sponge? I think so but I am not talking about that, I am talking about modifying the properties of the sponge,which has made some people discover that the pips performance increases a lot , a lot, a lot, a lot .

Too much hypocrisy in this sport .


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PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 02:57 
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That doesn't make much sense to me...

It's just not a good style at the top level. Like trying to use sport taekwondo in MMA at the elite ranks. The style simply doesn't do well versus all the other weapons. Saying kick harder or wear tighter jockstraps isn't going to fix the fundamental problem. Just as changing the pips/sponge of a chopper won't do much good in the grand scheme of things.

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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2022, 01:52 
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Alright,then! if your theory is right,why do a certain number of pros modify the sponge? be it inverted rubbers or pips.

One thing is that you can use D.tchs for chopping at a certain level but the OP is talking about the pro level.Besides, the fact that JOO used d,tchs is not a solid reason to prove that d.techs is a chopping rubber at the maximum level, which is the point of the OP


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2022, 07:03 
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Even with their modified sponges, choppers still do not win out at the top. So what is the argument there? If they could only modify their pips to xyz, then choppers would begin winning again? She might miss as many balls as she makes with the grippier rubber.

I brought up THE top chopper of recent years and how he used d.tecs at times, which to me shows it can be a good chopping rubber! Jian Li uses low grip OX to chop, Markus Grothe (uses d.tecs ox), Sun Jianfei, maxim chaplygin (d.tecs 0.5, very thin), Gustaf Erikson etc. In joo's recent video, he liked Han Ying and her short pips. His thinking seems to be variation is more important based on that video.

I'm not one for all the conspiracy talk, or think a pro wouldn't be a pro unless they used some secret booster or sponge softener. It might help a pro at the top level, but that is neither here nor there for some amateur players dinking the ball back and forth a few times a week.

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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2022, 10:11 
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I am a low level and intermediate player chopper and tried Dtec because some players were using it in my club. Was the worst rubber I have ever played with. Very difficult to control while chopping and chops kept going into the net exactly like Mayu has in her video against Hina. Found out later that Dtec is not a chopping rubber. One of my other friends let me try his Feint Long 3 & it so much better & I have been using it for 2 years now. I still suck & I am not any better because of Feint Long 3 but at least I get few more ball back & definitely enjoy chopping. I have to agree with Charmander. I made the mistake of trying Dtec just because few blockers were loving it. But it is OK I learned my lesson but was a very good lesson, which is, don't buy rubbers just because a pro uses it or switched to it. Pros are successful with most rubbers despite using rubbers that are not the best for them but it definitely won't work for a low level player like myself.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2022, 14:32 
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The person making multiple accounts really has a vendetta against tibhar. Pretty sad, wonder what their sad sad story is...


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