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 Post subject: Perfect Serve Return
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 02:55 
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Wilson's well placed push return to Dan's hip pocket jams mr poh and forces a weak return enabling Wilson to kill it down the line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUDnY2OTxyc

rick


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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 03:59 
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speedplay wrote:
That's a pretty good set up to kill off the point!


hi speedplay..

poor old dan..hes probably 0-30 against wilson....
this clip demonstrates what wilson did to dan virtually every single point in this finals event..

it was probably the first time i had ever witnessed, in person, the effectiveness of a deep jamming push as a set up play for a subsequent kill shot

wilson, as you might already know is the best player in north america...(along with his buddy wang zhen)

rick


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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 04:33 
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Nice video/ something to put in practise sesion

Thanks

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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 04:57 
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speedplay wrote:
I have heard about Wilson before and understand that he's got a pretty impressive record with in North America.

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position, but to me, it seems like a much better option as he is more or less setting the ball up for a kill by "looping" it from out of position.

Then again, if Wilson is that good, he probably has an answer to that shot as well.


hi speed

wilson vs dan is like mike tyson vs a 10 yr old boxer. No matter how good the 10 yr old is he's going to get over powered and destroyed regardless of what he tries..

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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 16:57 
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Nice clip! You certainly have to pick the spin on the serve really well to be able to push the well and accurate... if you can do it, it can be very effective I agree...

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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 18:21 
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You have to wonder why anyone would choose to play it with the forehand though. You would have to have a pretty dodgy backhand to think that shot is a better option.


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PostPosted: 19 Oct 2008, 23:35 
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speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2008, 02:09 
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Dark horse wrote:
speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.


Dark horse

very good analysis. i understand the other comment (asked by the other poster) questioning the choice of using the forehand. the reason dan for the most part chooses to step around hs bh and attempt to deliver a fh is because thats the smartest play in all of table tennis...smartest in the sense of most effective way to overpower an opponent. Dan is lightning fast and has a fh attack that has propelled his rating to 2600+ and as you said...he has 'committed' himself.

I felt bad for dan during this match because this clip shows what wilson did to him every single point except two. it was also was the first time i had ever seen a 2600 rated player (about 45th in Canada) get so severely beaten that he looked like a complete beginner.

The Chinese guys that come over here to Vancouver from the National team or Super League are funny that way.



:whdat:

rick


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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2008, 21:54 
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Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.


Dark horse

the reason dan for the most part chooses to step around hs bh and attempt to deliver a fh is because thats the smartest play in all of table tennis...smartest in the sense of most effective way to overpower an opponent.



Really? or is it the result of not having a consistent quality b/hand opener, and being outclassed anyway. Its only smart if it works, if it is what the opponent wants you to do, and you do it........ I could say its dumb, but lets just say its 'not so smart' :)

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 01:10 
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Dark horse wrote:
Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.


Dark horse

the reason dan for the most part chooses to step around hs bh and attempt to deliver a fh is because thats the smartest play in all of table tennis...smartest in the sense of most effective way to overpower an opponent.



Really? or is it the result of not having a consistent quality b/hand opener, and being outclassed anyway. Its only smart if it works, if it is what the opponent wants you to do, and you do it........ I could say its dumb, but lets just say its 'not so smart' :)


hi dark horse

dan's opening bh is superb...but his subsequent bh's are very weak...( i wont bore you with the technical reasons why) the plain truth of the matter is that when one is so incredibly outclassed..theres very little, if anything at all...that can be done..

wilson has a kill response to just about everything...

rick


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 05:49 
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Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.


Dark horse

the reason dan for the most part chooses to step around hs bh and attempt to deliver a fh is because thats the smartest play in all of table tennis...smartest in the sense of most effective way to overpower an opponent.



Really? or is it the result of not having a consistent quality b/hand opener, and being outclassed anyway. Its only smart if it works, if it is what the opponent wants you to do, and you do it........ I could say its dumb, but lets just say its 'not so smart' :)


hi dark horse

dan's opening bh is superb...but his subsequent bh's are very weak...( i wont bore you with the technical reasons why)

rick


You are right, you wont bore me, technical reasons are what I do, down to the finest detail if required, I can talk TT all day. Ok accepted that one player is outclassing another here, but to discuss as to why, well yr in the right place :wink:

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 06:01 
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Dark horse wrote:
Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
Rick Anderson wrote:
Dark horse wrote:
speedplay wrote:

One thing that strikes me is; Why don't dan try to push it back? Sure, it is long and he's out of position,


if you watch carefully, Dan has comitted to the f/hand loop, his shoulder has dropped, it also looks like wilson's push is more acute than he anticipated, due to the sidespin of the serve, either intended or not.


Dark horse

the reason dan for the most part chooses to step around hs bh and attempt to deliver a fh is because thats the smartest play in all of table tennis...smartest in the sense of most effective way to overpower an opponent.



Really? or is it the result of not having a consistent quality b/hand opener, and being outclassed anyway. Its only smart if it works, if it is what the opponent wants you to do, and you do it........ I could say its dumb, but lets just say its 'not so smart' :)


hi dark horse

dan's opening bh is superb...but his subsequent bh's are very weak...( i wont bore you with the technical reasons why)

rick


You are right, you wont bore me, technical reasons are what I do, down to the finest detail if required, I can talk TT all day. Ok accepted that one player is outclassing another here, but to discuss as to why, well yr in the right place :wink:


haha..ok then..he sticks his butt out in something similiar to a proper crouch which makes him slightly late on his bh making his bh returns very weak instead of doing it this way: (me hitting bh to him)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLXv9-6EOCc

again..having said all that...iv'e never beaten him... :oops:

rick


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 06:30 
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Sticks his butt out? that is totally meaningless, has he got a weight transfer problem? it would be better to see a clip of his b/hand rather than a selected one of yrself playing a ball that has been introduced to you with a simple serve, and then use it as an example of how to play the stroke. The best way to analyze a stroke is to see it in either matchplay or in an irregular drill, random middle and wide is ideal, any clips of that?

BTW, do you know Colin Carslake? or Dave Gatiss, both UK players on the Canadian rating list.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 06:50 
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Rick Anderson wrote:

again..having said all that...iv'e never beaten him... :oops:

rick


Hardly surprising, given yr rating differential :lol:

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008, 07:25 
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Dark horse wrote:
Sticks his butt out? that is totally meaningless, has he got a weight transfer problem? it would be better to see a clip of his b/hand rather than a selected one of yrself playing a ball that has been introduced to you with a simple serve, and then use it as an example of how to play the stroke. The best way to analyze a stroke is to see it in either matchplay or in an irregular drill, random middle and wide is ideal, any clips of that?

BTW, do you know Colin Carslake? or Dave Gatiss, both UK players on the Canadian rating list.


dh

yes..because he sticks his butt out his weight transfer is slightly off..

i dont have a clip of his backhand with his butt sticking out because that part of his game has never impressed me..

i dont know the the name colin and yes ive seen dave play a few times...
dave is quite good wth an extremely strong fh and superb all around skill and will be much better when he doesnt self destruct during match play.

rick


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