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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2009, 11:44 
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Mars63 wrote:
Hey Poor knight,
have you seen this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFucuQcIXJ8&
that Silver posted a while back except he did so because he was looking at the Asian pimps??? player but the other player from Romanian caught my attention because he had some very nice variation on his semi-upright FH tomahawk services, lots of real & fake follow throughs with the blade & wrist. It is also worth looking at the different contact points on the ball & blade he uses.
cheers


G'day Mars
thanks for the link...that was fascinating.
Never seen tomahawks with quite that delivery before. Kind of a Pendulum with a Tomahawk twist. Would be a good weapon to have, especially because it has the exact same starting position as a pendulum so the opponent has less time to adjust. I'm gonna have to study this video a bit!

Thanks again!
PK

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2009, 11:51 
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Thanks for the words of wisdom Silver

Yeah, the stuff about contact being too high has been a universal message and one I will have to work on. Maybe I should just keep the whole body a bit lower.

Interesting about the tense bit... any suggestions on how to relax? Or what warning signs to look out for? I don't remember being consciously tense.

Re: the backhand, I tend to adjust the toss depending on the serve. For the short control serves I tend to throw straight up. But if I want to maximise spin I tend to toss towards my body so increase the speed of contact with the rubber. Of course, according to the rules, you are supposed to toss straight up, but watching the professionals there is clearly a leeway for a slight angle.

Yeah, re: the variation at 2:00...that was the first time I tried it. I'd never seen anyone do it before so don't know whether I was doing it correctly or not. I just read someone mention that people at his club serve with their backhand rubber of a pendulum serve. My version is limited in that I seem to only be able to do fast/long serves off it. If I could figure out how to do shorter spinny serves as well, that would be a viable weapon to use in a proper match.

Re: arm covering the ball, I do move my arm outward but maybe I should do it faster. So far haven't heard any complaints but don't want to get stuck with a bad habit.

PK

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2009, 13:26 
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poor_knight wrote:
Mars63 wrote:
Hey Poor knight,
have you seen this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFucuQcIXJ8&
that Silver posted a while back except he did so because he was looking at the Asian pimps??? player but the other player from Romanian caught my attention because he had some very nice variation on his semi-upright FH tomahawk services, lots of real & fake follow throughs with the blade & wrist. It is also worth looking at the different contact points on the ball & blade he uses.
cheers


G'day Mars
thanks for the link...that was fascinating.
Never seen tomahawks with quite that delivery before. Kind of a Pendulum with a Tomahawk twist. Would be a good weapon to have, especially because it has the exact same starting position as a pendulum so the opponent has less time to adjust. I'm gonna have to study this video a bit!

Thanks again!
PK

This action is how you can really use your body and shoulder motion to meet the ball as it descend from your toss. These more upright tomahawk serves are what I use, have you seen Henzell's heavy underspin FH tomahawk that he has started using the last couple of years. It is very effective and he serves it pretty much down the centre line of the table, he then mixes in a lighter spin version and it is very effective.
I use that serve as bait to loopers, taking away their angle and many under estimate the severe underspin and miss the loop.

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2009, 13:45 
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Mars63 wrote:
This action is how you can really use your body and shoulder motion to meet the ball as it descend from your toss. These more upright tomahawk serves are what I use, have you seen Henzell's heavy underspin FH tomahawk that he has started using the last couple of years. It is very effective and he serves it pretty much down the centre line of the table, he then mixes in a lighter spin version and it is very effective.
I use that serve as bait to loopers, taking away their angle and many under estimate the severe underspin and miss the loop.


Yeah, I've seen Henzell's heavy underspin tomahawk. I actually didn't even know it WAS a tomahawk until someone pointed it out. It looked very different from the usual crouching overhand delivery I was familiar with. I had played around with trying to recreate Henzell's version of the tomahawk but with disappointing results. I might have a go with Artur's version instead now!

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2009, 14:34 
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poor_knight wrote:
Yeah, I've seen Henzell's heavy underspin tomahawk. I actually didn't even know it WAS a tomahawk until someone pointed it out. It looked very different from the usual crouching overhand delivery I was familiar with. I had played around with trying to recreate Henzell's version of the tomahawk but with disappointing results. I might have a go with Artur's version instead now!

Don't give up on this serve I have re looked at your FH tomahawk service in the clip and would ask that you try the following variations
Don't open your blade face so much, your wrist is cocked back which is good for "windscreen wiper " serves, try keeping a much more vertical blade this should allow you to get more out of your elbow & wrist snap. With a more vertical blade you can actually contact the bottom (4 o'clock) & slightly front of the ball to create heaps of side/underspin. Try to make side spin the main aim & what the opponent reads but use a ultra quick action and varied contact point on the top or bottom of the ball to produce disgusied top or underspin. The contact must be a very thin graze as though you were just trying to slice off the thinnest layer off the ball.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2009, 15:01 
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Mars63 wrote:
Don't give up on this serve I have re looked at your FH tomahawk service in the clip and would ask that you try the following variations
Don't open your blade face so much, your wrist is cocked back which is good for "windscreen wiper " serves, try keeping a much more vertical blade this should allow you to get more out of your elbow & wrist snap. With a more vertical blade you can actually contact the bottom (4 o'clock) & slightly front of the ball to create heaps of side/underspin. Try to make side spin the main aim & what the opponent reads but use a ultra quick action and varied contact point on the top or bottom of the ball to produce disgusied top or underspin. The contact must be a very thin graze as though you were just trying to slice off the thinnest layer off the ball.


Yeah, I saw a video of Greg Lett's tomahawk and I was struck by how his stroke looked to be mainly driven by his arm, while mine was 95% wrist. Okay, so next time I will start with the racquet held up vertically, without cocking the wrist, and then try and come down on the ball with my arm (and a bit of wrist) and see if I can impart backspin.

Still, even if successful, this is a very different kind of backspin tomahawk as compared to Henzell and even Artur. They bring their racquet down under the ball very clearly and couldn't possibly do a top-spin variation with that stroke.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2009, 15:26 
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You can do a topspin tomahawk by tipping the vertical bat in towards you so that you contact the upper half of the ball.

If you crouch low like I do for a tomahawk, make your stroke start up and then down. (an arch) I usually contact the ball just after the bat starts down for topspin.

Variation; make the stroke look the same but pull the bat down with it slightly tipped out. Start with the bat tipped in for both. Hard for them to see if you kept it tipped in or not. :D

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2009, 16:31 
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poor_knight wrote:
Mars63 wrote:
Don't give up on this serve I have re looked at your FH tomahawk service in the clip and would ask that you try the following variations
Don't open your blade face so much, your wrist is cocked back which is good for "windscreen wiper " serves, try keeping a much more vertical blade this should allow you to get more out of your elbow & wrist snap. With a more vertical blade you can actually contact the bottom (4 o'clock) & slightly front of the ball to create heaps of side/underspin. Try to make side spin the main aim & what the opponent reads but use a ultra quick action and varied contact point on the top or bottom of the ball to produce disgusied top or underspin. The contact must be a very thin graze as though you were just trying to slice off the thinnest layer off the ball.


Yeah, I saw a video of Greg Lett's tomahawk and I was struck by how his stroke looked to be mainly driven by his arm, while mine was 95% wrist. Okay, so next time I will start with the racquet held up vertically, without cocking the wrist, and then try and come down on the ball with my arm (and a bit of wrist) and see if I can impart backspin.

Still, even if successful, this is a very different kind of backspin tomahawk as compared to Henzell and even Artur. They bring their racquet down under the ball very clearly and couldn't possibly do a top-spin variation with that stroke.

Poor knight
I have seen Henzell live as recently as 2 weeks ago and from the side you can see what he is doing a bit clearer. As hookshot states below he tilts his blade but most importantly he also partially wraps the blade around the ball and pulls down for heavy spin or pats the ball for no spin. The swings is not simply a vertical stroke.

When I said you where cocking your the wrist back I meant more that you lay it back or open you still need to use a wrist snap for max spin just like if your were throwing a tomahawk or axe.

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