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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2019, 02:57 
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Blade: Dr N Magical Touch
FH: Yinhe Big Dipper
BH: Spinlord Waran 1.8 mm
ChasFox wrote:
Two shortish sessions with Orkan black 1.5mm on my Sauer & Troga black & white blade.

First impressions are that it is definitely not a rubber for standard inverted/spinny short pips technique and quite different from the other Spinlord short/ medium pips and probably more like KO. Pips are narrower and quite wide spaced and vertically arranged. As Soba mentioned above, not that good for counter topspin but very easy to straight blade block with and lift backspin. An excellent weapon against pushers and choppers and long pips.

Quite easy to p!ay with once blade angles etc adjusted but not much disruptive effect. That may come as the sponge and pimples soften up.

Thanks for the review!
Do you consider Keiler suitable for "standard inverted/spinny short pips technique"?
How would you compare the speed of Orkan vs Keiler?


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2019, 03:47 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.5
That is probably best served on BH by Degu 1.8mm.

Keiler is more disruptive than Degu but is still more SP than LP in basic stroke technique.. Keiler is a bit faster than Orkan at least when new.

Waran 1.8mm is good on the backhand for dynamic play but hard to block topspin as quite fast.


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2019, 21:15 
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Blade: dr neubauer firewall +
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo 2.15 mm
BH: Dr. Neubauer Agressor 1.5
Hi guys please go to the forum of new medium pips list caracteristics to rate your mp. It is then added to the Summary table so everyone can look at for pips comparaison. Thank you.


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 00:18 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
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Will do once I have been able to evaluate it properly


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 00:14 
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Blade: dr neubauer firewall +
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo 2.15 mm
BH: Dr. Neubauer Agressor 1.5
Thank you. If you have mps you played with it before you can also do a rating for them.


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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2019, 02:36 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH: SpinLord Waran 2.0
BH: SpinLord ORKan 1.8
I'm excited, my sheet of ORKan got here early, so I'll get to try it out at the club tonight! :)
I got the 1.5 mm silver sponge. It does feel pretty soft.

I also got a sheet of Hurricane 2 Neo for the first time, just to try. Holy cow, that smell. Now I know what everybody always talks about.

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USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2019, 13:53 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH: SpinLord Waran 2.0
BH: SpinLord ORKan 1.8
First session with ORKan is in the books. I'm not sure if in the long term it will be better or worse for my game. It's definitely different from Keiler. In some ways, it acted like a grippy long pip, which made it easy for me to adjust to, coming from OX long pips. Some general impressions on my Defplay Senso:

Speed
Speed is definitely slow, especially compared to Aggressor and KO Pro, but even compared to Keiler I noticed the slower pace right away

Throw
Throw felt very much like Keiler, higher than the Dr Neubauer pips. Combine the slower speed and medium throw, and it made it very easy to control right away, even against very spinny balls or hard hit balls.

Blocking
Passive blocking went back dead and short. Active punch blocking was controllable. Not a lot of deception, you have to win points on dropping the ball short and in uncomfortable places for your opponent.

Pushing
Due to the grip, I had to be very precise against heavy back spin. And it did feel a little springy on pushes. But, since the pips felt like they bent pretty easily, I could vary the spin a bit, which I imagine would be useful for chopping.

Hitting
Hitting was pretty easy, very controllable. You're not going to overpower anybody with this rubber, so you have to make your points off of placement, consistency, and being off speed. Against back spin, I could even use a traditional long pips lifting stroke, something I haven't found other medium pips to be able to do very well.

In summary, I think it would work very well for a defensive player who values being able to take the pace off the ball a lot, with the occasional threat of a well placed hit, knowing that your opponent will likely return it if they see it coming. Definitely not for someone looking to be very aggressive. For the time being, as I'm coming from OX long pips, I might continue to keep it in my rotation of setups I'm testing, as it gives me a controllable option to help learn the medium pips game. I have a tournament next weekend, I may try the ORKan in one event and the Keiler in another to see what suits me the best. In the long term, I think I'd like to work my way up to using the K.O. Pro, I think I could have a really good game with that, but I am not skilled enough with medium pips yet to tame it, especially in a tournament setting.

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USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2019, 18:55 
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Very good summary of Orkan playing characteristics that more or less matches my experiences s after 4 sessions.

However due to the lack of pace and disruption I am going back to Keiler or another short to medium pip that I can put more spin on and be more dangerous. Apart from accuracy of placement I found it difficult to be cause my opponents much harm with Orkan and the sponge is bit too springy for blocks and chops near the table.

So as you say probably more suited to someone coming from LP than short pips and is used to using a lot of wrist action to create effect/spin.


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 23:07 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH: SpinLord Waran 2.0
BH: SpinLord ORKan 1.8
Had my second session with the ORKan last night, and I have to say, I was quite surprised by how well it was working for me. I had a few matches with a 2000 USATT level looper that I've been playing for many years, so he knows my game and different equipment setups inside and out. He's a good person to give me feedback, as he plays very well against pips and has experience against me.

I'd played some matches against him with the Keiler, so it was good to get a direct comparison. At a top level, he said that the ORKan was more difficult to play against than the Keiler. Things he noted in my game:
1) On both passive blocks and chop blocks, more spin reversal than he expected. Definitely more than the Keiler, and even trying to read what was coming back at him, he was mis-reading the amount on the ball. He also noted that balls he can typically overpower me with, I was returning more frequently. He mentioned that the ball was stopping shorter after the bounce than he expected, which threw off his timing.
2) Hitting - while I wasn't blowing balls past him or overwhelming him with power, he noted my consistency and placement were very good. If I punched the ball down the line to the forehand, he dumped a number of his loop attempts into the net. And, I could add my own spin to balls on softer flips. If he hit a softer shot, I could get up on the table, punch block a couple of balls, and usually get a weak enough ball to step around and pound with the forehand.
3) Serves - When I used to serve with my long pips he never had a lot of problems with them. Last night, when I served deep, fast balls into his body, he was missing more frequently.

I also had a session with a 1600 rated player that uses hardbat on the forehand and inverted on the backhand, and didn't really have much trouble beating him. I was getting the better end of almost all counter hitting rallies.

Given that I wasn't greatly impressed with the ORKan after the first session with it, the positives that came out of this second session really surprised me. I think I'm going to have to dedicate more of my playing time to testing it out. The one thing that I still really struggled with was pushing against backspin. Because of how grippy the pips seem to be, they really seemed to bite into backspin, which was causing me to have to change my pushing form a bit.

All this being said, I am going to stick with one initial thought I had about this rubber - that it is more for a long pips type of game. If you are looking to play a short pips type of game with more aggressive/overpowering blocking and hitting, this rubber is not for you. But if you're looking for a bit of a medium pip/long pip hybrid, it's worth checking out. At the very least, coming from so many years of playing long pips, for me it's a great transition rubber that allows me to play with good control and still get some of that long pip type deception.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is."
USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2019, 14:48 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
FH: Victas V-15 Stiff Bl Max
BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
My ORKan is a little different, I got mine with the pink sponge, ORKan II. Speed wise it is near to Keiler on flat strikes, but it doesn't do topspin. Probably the worst stroke you can do is topspin with this rubber. I only got a couple of hours in with it, against a 2 winged looper/allaround player, it took me 4 games to come to terms with the fact that this rubber isn't for topspin play. Block, flat hits, all work well, and with the faster sponge in 1.8 mm I was able to put him under time pressure and force him back from the table where I could finish the ball with my forehand. 5th game was easy, as by then I was in block mode and just returning everything...but I can't say I had fun.

Second match was against a long pips blocker, about drove him crazy with the short dead blocks and dead pushes. Not to mention if he got the ball a little high I could drive flat for a winner. It took me a while to get the racket angles correct after my loop and his chop block, but it was effective.

My biggest concern with the ORKan II was the ball appeared too high, that might be better with the slower version. Also I am not sure what I would do if I had to play someone who had a good soft high-spin loop.

I can do most of this stuff with Keiler, and it has the upside of handling soft high loops well and it can do some limited topspin play. I don't see this staying on my racket long enough to do a true review, it just isn't made for what I really want in a backhand rubber. Not that it is a bad rubber, I was able to adapt and play well with it in a short period of time against 2 different types of players. It just has limitations that would force me to play in a certain style, I prefer to have more options at the table.

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; SpinLord Keiler (Red) 1.8 itmm Testing Power Pipes (Red) 1.8 mm, Do Knuckle (Red) 1.5 mm, Ordered Explosion (Red) 1.5 mm, and Power Pipes (Red) 1.5 mm


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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2019, 23:46 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH: SpinLord Waran 2.0
BH: SpinLord ORKan 1.8
Thanks for sharing your impression of ORKan II. I purchased a sheet of it to eventually try, I will keep your feedback on it in mind! I had another session with the regular ORKan last night, and it's really starting to grow on me. Played a long pips blocker, and it felt like I could drive through just about any dead ball he gave me. So far, this rubber has played better than I expected after my initial session with it. Loopers seem to have trouble against the slow pace and reversal it gives, and flat balls can be smacked. Maybe not for a direct winner, but it will set up a forehand kill shot. My biggest struggle is still with pushing. I still either dump too many into the net or pop them up. I feel like that might just be me, though, and that I need to adjust the blade angle. I still like the Keiler too...but for now I think a few more sessions with the ORKan are in order. Eventually I'll put the ORKan II on a blade to give it a comparison.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is."
USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2019, 23:33 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.5
After trying Orkan 1.5mm on my Black & White blade and then returning to Keiler I attached the same sheet to my TSP black balsa 4.0.

For some reason the extra spring from the TSP blade seems to work much better than on the less bouncy and stiffer B&W and gives it a bit of zing!. In fact the exact opposite of what I find with Keiler which can be hard to control on TSP balsa blades.

Where Orkan really seems to shine is driving through backspin especially against a long pips chop blocker. Keiler has always been good for this but Orkan is on another level.

What I have also found in moving into medium pips from inverted is that to effectively chop near the table needs a fast short wrist action, as a smoother inverted type action creates more of a floating ball that has less spin and can easily go long.


Last edited by ChasFox on 27 Jan 2019, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2019, 23:55 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
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BH: SpinLord ORKan 1.8
ChasFox, I am finding the exact same thing about ORKan against backspin. Short, long...doesn't matter, I can pretty much drive through any backspin ball if I'm in position. In my opinion, it's because of the grip that the pimple has. I can almost feel the pips gripping the ball, taking the backspin, and throwing it back as top. Even on some of the slower shots, I'm finding opponents underestimating the amount of top spin that is coming at them. The interesting thing is, I can still counter drive against fast flat balls. With grippy long pips, I could hit through backspin (not as effectively as ORKan, but I still could do it) but the fast flat balls really bothered me. ORKan can handle either ball.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is."
USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2019, 03:02 
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For those new to medium pips like Orkan it is worth watching the You tube videos in which Max Cherepnin reviews KO and KO Pro in which he demonstrates the stiffer wrist technique needed with these new generation of low throw disruptive MP's.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 00:18 
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I've been watching all of his videos that I can find! I love watching him play, that style looks so fun. It's actually inspired me to put some Waran on my forehand and try to learn it! Quite an adjustment for me, since my natural forehand is to brush loop with a grippy inverted, but it's fun to learn new strokes and tactics. :)

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is."
USATT Rating: 1685
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH Rubber: Testing SpinLord Waran 2.0, TSP Spinpips Red 2.0, DMS Firestorm Soft 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing SpinLord ORKan 1.8, Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5, Dr Neubauer Explosion 1.5


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