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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 19:18 
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Hi,

Under what circumstances would one use Medium Pips OX over Long Pips (OX) .. What would be the pros n cons ?


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:03 
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Medium pips are in general easier to attack with than long pips, but will provide you with less spin reversal. So, if you want to hit the ball but want more "funk" than short pips can provide, you'd use a medium pip. From my personal experience, though, they are ok at many things but not great at anything. I could also see using them if you want to try to transition either from long to short or short to long, as a bit of a middle step to ease the transition.

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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2021, 22:35 
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ootbs wrote:
Hi,

Under what circumstances would one use Medium Pips OX over Long Pips (OX) .. What would be the pros n cons ?


Asked myself that question (including sponge) many, many times over the years. My answer is what you use when you (maybe better termed "I") want to do bad at everything-defense and offense.


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 15:42 
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dwruck wrote:
Medium pips are in general easier to attack with than long pips, but will provide you with less spin reversal. So, if you want to hit the ball but want more "funk" than short pips can provide, you'd use a medium pip. From my personal experience, though, they are ok at many things but not great at anything. I could also see using them if you want to try to transition either from long to short or short to long, as a bit of a middle step to ease the transition.


What sort of Funk are we talking about ? Currently, I play with Long-pips (both, Sponged and OX, on different setups).. After around 2 years of playing with LPs, I've come to the conclusion that, for most parts, the reversal is not that great, and whatever is offered by way of just reversal, works only against players who have very little or not clue of how to play against LPs. Infact, the more adept players will use this reversal to their advantage. What I have to rely upon (Apart from attacks), is ball placement, change in speed, and lastly but importantly - Twiddling .. I try attacking with LPs, but just cannot seem to get the hang of it .. I will however, twiddle (inverted on BH) and hit (Mostly, with a strong wristy flick type of shot) ..

A very senior (Veteran), and highly respected player/former-coach has been insisting (after watching me play) that I give MPs a shot... He feels that it may better-suit my game. So, I've thinking of slapping-on a cheap MP (Likes of Yinhe Pluto or Friendship 563-1) on a spare, and give it a shot.. However, I'm not sure what sponge-thickness I should start-off with


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2021, 22:50 
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i am not dwruck, but here are my thoughts:
"Funk" is different from expected spin imo. So I push an underspin ball with my LP and I give you light topspin back or maybe some underspin. Something the shot does not look like it should have.
While my earlier post is quite pessimistic, I am referring to my experience-not others. I highly respect those who play well with MP. It takes a lot of training and experience. If one is willing to take the time and effort to use and master them they can still be a weapon. That said, the players who can handle your LP well will still be able to handle your MP well and use them against you. What you said regarding LP play applies with MP play. Placement, speed and spin variation and twiddling are still going to be the most important parts of your game.
In regards to sponge thickness you already know that thinner sponge for control and thicker for easier hitting. I would recommend you decide based on how much you want to hit vs chop. There seem to be less options available with MP, but maybe that is a good thing. Pick one and stick with it. The bigger factor than sponge thickness will be your practice time. If you have someone who has used MP and can get technique tips all the better.
Good luck.


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2021, 06:06 
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Yeah, I have to agree with the above posts. I've tried Pimplemini in three different sponge thicknesses.

They have reversal, but not as much as LPs.
They can generate their own spin, but nowhere near as much as SPs (especially the spinny SPs).
They can block, but it's not easy, and the resulting ball isn't particularly dangerous.

They're a "nothing" pip to me. They make up for some of the weaknesses of the other pimple lengths (e.g. easier to chop with than SPs and easier to roll/pimple-loop with than LPs) but it's at the expense of these rubbers' strengths.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2021, 11:46 
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I personally do not see a reason to play ox SP or ox MP.

I play Dr. Nebauer KO Pro 1.3 for 2 years and played Spinlord Dornenglanz ox 7-8 years.
My game is typical BH-crab push-blocking game with my MP. Tactics is similar, technique is different. I cannot take and immediately begin to play LP again anymore.

MP is better for forcing your own game regardless incoming spin while LP technique is reactive and based on spin reversal.
MP is better for opening BH attacks with loop-like false topspin stroke against any spin or no spin.
MP is better for blocking really powerful shots and return effects where LP will usually jam and fail.
MP (like classical gripy antispin) is favored against LP-players. Some think that anti and MP return similar balls in general.
Some players are well prepared to play against LP but struggle against my pips. A few quit opposite.


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2021, 14:32 
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dunc wrote:
Yeah, I have to agree with the above posts. I've tried Pimplemini in three different sponge thicknesses.

They have reversal, but not as much as LPs.
They can generate their own spin, but nowhere near as much as SPs (especially the spinny SPs).
They can block, but it's not easy, and the resulting ball isn't particularly dangerous.
.


Yep.. Thanks .. I'll bear this in mind..


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2021, 14:38 
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Omut wrote:
I personally do not see a reason to play ox SP or ox MP.


oh okay .. but, I'd like to know your reasoning (especially for ox MP) ?



Omut wrote:
MP is better for forcing your own game regardless incoming spin while LP technique is reactive and based on spin reversal.
MP is better for opening BH attacks with loop-like false topspin stroke against any spin or no spin.
MP is better for blocking really powerful shots and return effects where LP will usually jam and fail.


Yep.. I think It is for the above reasons, I'm been recommended MPs..


Omut wrote:
Some players are well prepared to play against LP but struggle against my pips. A few quit opposite.


Yeah yeah .. I've played against MP players, a couple of times, and struggled.


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2021, 23:48 
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I think that Omut hit the nail with this:
"MP is better for forcing your own game regardless incoming spin while LP technique is reactive and based on spin reversal."

Pretty much much all the skilled MP players that I've faced have played a very active offensive game. 755 with a fairly thin sponge seem to be popular around here and there's a decent amount of funk & reversal going on when they play passively but 99% of the time it's more like meeting an SP player. Hard knuckle balls that sinks a lot. There's some serious skill involved in learning to play with these rubbers.


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2021, 16:16 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
Pretty much much all the skilled MP players that I've faced have played a very active offensive game. 755 with a fairly thin sponge seem to be popular around here and there's a decent amount of funk & reversal going on when they play passively but 99% of the time it's more like meeting an SP player. Hard knuckle balls that sinks a lot.


I'm a big fan of the so-called sink-effect - seems to trouble most players (including me) .. Howeever, 755 is an LP .. I've tried it, but didn't find anything special bout it.. plus, didn't notice any sink-effect produced by it.. not even by the guy who was actually playing with it, at that time..

mart1nandersson wrote:
There's some serious skill involved in learning to play with these rubbers.


I'm willing to give it a shot, and put in the work .. What'd be a good rubber to start-off with - I'm thinking - a cheap Chinese-brand rubber - the likes of Friendship 563-1 (Mystery Sponge 1.2mm) or Yinhe Pluto in 1.5mm


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2021, 16:42 
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Where are you based? I'd be happy to sell you one or more of my Pimplemini rubbers pretty cheap if you're interested. I'm UK.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2021, 17:03 
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dunc wrote:
Where are you based? I'd be happy to sell you one or more of my Pimplemini rubbers pretty cheap if you're interested. I'm UK.


I've hear that the Pimplemini is quite user-friendly, and I don't mind starting-off with it .. Thanks for the offer.. However, I think just the shipping costs would make it more expensive than the Chinese options..


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2021, 17:11 
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Alright mate, no worries, just PM me if you change your mind :)

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2021, 17:22 
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Most MPs are clearly faster than LP and made for attacking and blocking. LPs are usually slower and mostly made for defending against top spin and attacking back spin.

Not sure if they play MP ox here, but there are some clips on this channel where thay do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-JUJXkfsAE

But this is how I think MP are meant to be used: https://youtu.be/WxzS7ZE0DQs
https://youtu.be/Yg2P3ZuJd7w
But that is probably with like 1.8 mm sponge.

Here is one with 1.0 mm sponge: https://youtu.be/PioAENHvaCg

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