OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The difference is the orientation of the pips, one is vertical and the other is horizontal...but without getting the sheets out and looking at them I can't remember which is which. I think I posted it somewhere here.

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm

I found what I posted in another thread, hope I got this correct...I'll try to check when I get home from work tonight.

I have been using Keiler (horizontal) and had no issues using Power Pipes (Vertical) or Do Knuckle (Vertical) pretty much using the same game plan and techniques as with Keiler. I had more issues using Super Do Knuckle (horizontal) and Orkan II (Vertical), attacking topspin with these was next to impossible with my current strokes. I'm not sure what that should tell us?

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm

Ok thx already for the info

Has anyone tried this in OX? If so can you compare it to OX LP?

Steve

I've given up, and gone back to Keiler, I can't find anything else that has everything I want in one package. Since I don't like the Orange sponge out of the package, I've developed a solution. I just give it a light boosting treatment, then let it sit for a couple of weeks and glue it on to my blade. By then most if not all of the booster is gone, and the sponge is broken in. Similar to what people did in the past to break in hard Chinese sponges. Two weeks is probably overkill, but I want to make sure the booster is gone and the sheet has returned to it's original size. I don't want it boosted, not faster or bouncier, just broken in (without the hassle of playing with it until it loosens up.)

It seems to work well, and I have been playing well with the first sheet I tried this method on in practice matches. I have 2 more in progress at the moment.

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm

I think I am going to have try this booster on "new" orange sponge Keiler as the top sheet still works as good as anything out there with the new ball.

What booster did you use?

The stuff ZeroPong sells Victory Tune.

https://www.zeropong.com/accessories-c-52/victory-tune-p-368

The key seems to be letting it sit for a time after boosting, since I really only want to break the sponge in, I'm not interested in making it faster (or harder to control).

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Killer Pro Evo (Red) 1.8 mm

I tried Keiler 1.8 on a Butterfly Korbel SK7 last night in training and found it was too bouncy and uncontrollable, although i did hit some fantastic shots with it, and could sort of loop with it (no spin) which seemed interesting.

I found it very bouncy on the block.

I assume with 1.5 or 1.2 maybe a slightly slower blade it would be more controllable and I would be able to do more funky stuff with it.

Anyway my question is this, are Keiler ok are a more flexy blade?

Maybe a Stiga Infinity

or Donic Waldner 2016 JO Shape?

To get the best out of Keiler as a bh rubber I would suggest a fairly stiff hard blade and slower the better. Then 1.2mm or 1.5mm sponge and short fast strokes. Where Keiler excels is that it can hit nasty no spin balls but also can create some spin when needed giving lots of variety. You just cannot be passive with it or use long inverted rubber type strokes. The New red sponge is a bit hard and poor at taking off speed and needs softening as mentioned in an earlier post.

Thanks Chas Fox

I feel the thinner Keiler was where I was going, I would be worried about a blade that was too slow, don't like blades slower than off-

I currently have a

Donic Waldner 2016 JO Shape
Tibhar Force Pro Blue
Yinhe M202 (Carbon Inner)

and a brand new virgin TSP Balsa 6.5, I am drawn to putting 1.2 on The TSP Balsa make it a bit easier to hit with.

Is there any difference between red and black Keiler in 1.8mm?

Sorry only have used Keiler in black. I would expect the red to be slightly harder faster with less grip and a bit more disruptive effect.

On a TSP 6.5 1.8mm is at least on the original sponge I tried a few years back pretty wild. If you want a bit of control I would suggest 1.5mm.

Thanks Chas.

I use red at the moment, just wondered.
I think I am ok with 1.8mm, I mostly hit and block, and do not do much funky disruptive stuff, probably need to add it to my game.

Chop blocks and side swipes etc!!

Chop blocks with keiler at least with 1.2mm sponge on my all speed blade seems quite effective when I was trying it out against medium speed loops earlier this week. Keiler is virtually impossible to traditional open blade chop with close to the table at least with my limited technique so being able to chop block adds an extra option.

I´m always looking for blades that are stiff and with low catapult.
I play the Pluto with 1mm sponge on BH and tested many blades, the most in off-range.
Up to now the best blade is an old Nittaku Monoblade Carbon. The blade is clear off, very stiff and hard. But with the Pluto on BH
you can do wonderfully blocks, even push blocks.
I think the miracle is the very stiff carbon in second layer in combination with a not so thick core of ayous.
There are some blades with a similar construction.
Blades like the Waldner 2016 have immense catapult and flex. They don´t look that they are fast. But there are blazingly fast if you let work it with the flex and
are engineered for mid distance powertopspin play. This is the classic thick 5-ply. Only Waldner can do a short distance play with this.
Another good blades are the 7-ply blades. Lower flex and catapult, but always (for me) to much for short play. This are blades like the clipper.
The only playable 7-plies are old chinese basswood blades like DHS 08, Gold Cup or some from Meteor.
So, look for a carbon blade with second layer carbon that is very thin. Boll Spirit comes in mind, very good blade for pimps out, but has little more flex (carbon third layer)

Alex