OOAK Table Tennis Forum
https://ooakforum.com/

new Medium pips list charateristics-Help us to create a list
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=32976		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  maddrag [ 12 May 2018, 06:24 ]
Post subject:  new Medium pips list charateristics-Help us to create a list
With many medium pips just being put on the market specially by ( dr.Neubauer and DER MATERIALSPEZIALIST) I will try to create a board of the caracteristics so we can compare each of them. It include the older one also like millital,Diamant etc...Bare with me it is quite a task. Help from everyone will help.

First we will consider MP from theirs caractéristics of what we want to achieve with the MP: being able to do sp and LP shots with a certain ease. e.g. Let say you want to add PR1 in the list. They are no caractéristics of short pips in this LP. Ok some will say I can attack with it. yes but not with a good degree of stability and certainty over many consecutive shots. Its even consider a classic defender pimple rubber so it will not come in the list.

So What are the caractéristics we want to put in ? ( speed, control, spin, push,block counter, lift,roll, bump, classic chop, disruption, top spin etc... They will be note from one to ten. Then an average will be calculate for each carateristics and finally put it as near Sp or LP. We will also need, the thickness of the sponges and the blade you play with. We will try to pin point each one like that.



1-Speed
2-Control
3-short game
4-long game
5-own underspin
6-own topspin
7-reverse
8-disruption
9-block
10-attack
11-defense
10-flat hit
11-float
12-knuckle ball
13-push
14-classic chop

So give me the characteristics you want to see in the board.

See the board now just under. In the attachment below. June 8th. 2018.

thank you

Attachments:
Numérisation 8 juin 2018 (1).pdf [553.72 KiB]
Downloaded 581 times
Author:  nathanso [ 12 May 2018, 06:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Surely include sink.
Author:  Def-attack [ 12 May 2018, 16:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Also include a space for comments, like difference between sponge and ox.
Author:  BeGo [ 12 May 2018, 20:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Block, Drive, Chop, Loop, at on the table, short, and long range :)

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk
Author:  maddrag [ 12 May 2018, 22:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Sink = knuckle ball right ?
Author:  nathanso [ 13 May 2018, 01:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
maddrag wrote:
Sink = knuckle ball right ?


Not quite. With certain rubbers -- mostly thinner-sponged short and medium pips -- when you flat-hit a ball in a low, fast path towards your opponent, sink causes it to unexpectedly and suddenly drop downwards, contacting the table sooner than expected. Think downward wind shear and the effect it has on an airplane. Sink can be very effective, especially when the opponent thinks the ball is going long but sink causes it to unexpectedly drop and contact the table.
Author:  maddrag [ 13 May 2018, 14:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
ok let start with 2 mp I played:

Millital II 1.3 mm ( played with Victas koji Matsushita offensive defense, 95 gram.)

1-Speed : 4
2-Control: 9
3-short game: 7
4-long game: 8
5-own underspin: 6
6-own topspin: 5
7-reversal: 5
8-distortion: 4
9-block : 6
10-attack: 5
11-defense: 8
10-flat hit: 6
11-float: 6
12-knuckle ball : 3
13-push: 7
14-classic chop : 8
15-trow angle medium

Good all around MP. small Pimples, Can do hits own underspin on push. Good control overall. Can produce float and underspin on classic chop. Counter and block are ok but not dangerous as too slow Would be good with placement and variation on shot.

so Distortion: 3 block 6 drive 6 defense 8 Overal LP/SP: 4.5 all around

Neubauer agressor 1.3 mm ( play with neubauer powerwall plus 64 gram)
1-Speed : 7.5
2-Control: 8.5
3-short game: 7.5
4-long game: 8
5-own underspin: 6
6-own topspin: 6.5
7-reversal: 7
8-distortion: 8
9-block : 8
10-attack: 8
11-defense: 8
10-flat hit: 8
11-float: 8
12-knuckle ball : 5 ( still need to be verified)
13-push: 7.5
14-classic chop : 8
15-throw angle : low

Very god mp for variations and distortion. Long pimples 1.65 mm and big diameter 2.10mm. hard sponge 45 degree. The big and very long pimples can be played with no bending pimples or bending pimples thus changing the spin and speed on the ball. Never feel to hit the bottom of the blade. In learning process but can create tons of variations. Good control on counter against fast topspin and underspin. Agressive shot can be made using the bending of the pimple. Fast or slow shot can be made. Any agressive type of players ( defense or offense will find this rubber quite good. Feel secure to step back and chop back to secure the play to then go back at the table.

so Distortion: 8.5 block 8 drive 8.5 defense 8 Overal LP/SP: 5.5 offense


Shockwave 1.5 mm ( played with Victas koji Matsushita offensive defense, 95 gram.)

1-Speed : 8
2-Control: 9
3-short game: 7
4-long game: 6
5-own underspin: 7
6-own topspin: 7.5
7-reversal: 4.5
8-distortion: 4
9-block : 7
10-attack: 8.5
11-defense: 7
10-flat hit: 8
11-float: 8
12-knuckle ball : 7
13-push: 7.5
14-classic chop : 5
15- Trow angle: medium

Only play 2 hours with it. A regular pimple and diameter. Goes more on the SP side. Sponge at 35 degree and more springy. A closer angle need to be done on the attacking stroke. The speed of this pimples help to create spin.
Push, attack and placement is its bread and butter. Chop like an sp. Good side chop keep the ball lower. Distortion is absent except for fast counter that created heavy knuckle ball that make the ball fall shorter. Opponant are more use to this type of shot that look a lot like inverted rubber.

so Distortion: 4 block 7 drive 8.75 defense 5 Overal LP/SP: 7.5 offense

So I added the overall score of the rubber for what is tend to go toward. LP defense 1 to SP offensive 10 caracteristics with a score and the style of play. So 4.0 offensive would be a LP like rubber made for offense. ( the rubber will be good for offense but more like LP shot. A 9 offensive will be rubber with have more SP caracteristics with a lot of speed and attack. A 5 offensive will be both LP and SP caracteristics with offensive style like an LP and SP ( All around) Play distortion, reversal change speed, block and good defense.

Waiting for your comment and rating on MP you tried.
Author:  Def-attack [ 18 May 2018, 06:11 ]
Post subject:  new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a list.
Dr Neubauer Aggressor 1,5 mm on Stiga Carbonado 190

1-Speed 8
2-Control 5
3-short game 5
4-long game 6
5-own underspin 4
6-own topspin 5
7-reverse 8
8-disruption 9
9-block (passive 5, active 7)
10-attack 7
11-defense 6
10-flat hit 7
11-float 8
12-knuckle ball 8
13-push 4
14-classic chop 7

DMS Hellcat 1,5 mm on Stiga Carbonado 190

1-Speed 7
2-Control 8
3-short game 7
4-long game 7
5-own underspin 8
6-own topspin 9
7-reverse 5
8-disruption 4
9-block 8
10-attack 9
11-defense 6
10-flat hit 8
11-float 5
12-knuckle ball 4
13-push 8
14-classic chop 8


DMS Power Pipes 1,5 mm on Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon

1-Speed 9
2-Control 7
3-short game 6
4-long game 7
5-own underspin 7
6-own topspin 8
7-reverse 7
8-disruption 7
9-block 7
10-attack 9
11-defense 5
10-flat hit 8
11-float 9
12-knuckle ball 7
13-push 6
14-classic chop 5
Author:  maddrag [ 20 May 2018, 20:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Thank you def-attack. If you can name the blade you were playing with and what kind of blade it is. It would be great.
Author:  charmander defender [ 21 May 2018, 01:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
maddrag wrote:
ok let start with 2 mp I played:

Millital II 1.3 mm ( played with Victas koji Matsushita offensive defense, 95 gram.)

1-Speed : 4
2-Control: 9
3-short game: 7
4-long game: 8
5-own underspin: 6
6-own topspin: 5
7-reversal: 5
8-distortion: 4
9-block : 6
10-attack: 5
11-defense: 8
10-flat hit: 6
11-float: 6
12-knuckle ball : 3
13-push: 7
14-classic chop : 8
15-trow angle medium

Good all around MP. small Pimples, Can do hits own underspin on push. Good control overall. Can produce float and underspin on classic chop. Counter and block are ok but not dangerous as too slow Would be good with placement and variation on shot.

so Distortion: 3 block 6 drive 6 defense 8 Overal LP/SP: 4.5 all around

Neubauer agressor 1.3 mm ( play with neubauer powerwall plus 64 gram)
1-Speed : 7.5
2-Control: 8.5
3-short game: 7.5
4-long game: 8
5-own underspin: 6
6-own topspin: 6.5
7-reversal: 7
8-distortion: 8
9-block : 8
10-attack: 8
11-defense: 8
10-flat hit: 8
11-float: 8
12-knuckle ball : 5 ( still need to be verified)
13-push: 7.5
14-classic chop : 8
15-throw angle : low

Very god mp for variations and distortion. Long pimples 1.65 mm and big diameter 2.10mm. hard sponge 45 degree. The big and very long pimples can be played with no bending pimples or bending pimples thus changing the spin and speed on the ball. Never feel to hit the bottom of the blade. In learning process but can create tons of variations. Good control on counter against fast topspin and underspin. Agressive shot can be made using the bending of the pimple. Fast or slow shot can be made. Any agressive type of players ( defense or offense will find this rubber quite good. Feel secure to step back and chop back to secure the play to then go back at the table.

so Distortion: 8.5 block 8 drive 8.5 defense 8 Overal LP/SP: 5.5 offense


Shockwave 1.5 mm ( played with Victas koji Matsushita offensive defense, 95 gram.)

1-Speed : 8
2-Control: 9
3-short game: 7
4-long game: 6
5-own underspin: 7
6-own topspin: 7.5
7-reversal: 4.5
8-distortion: 4
9-block : 7
10-attack: 8.5
11-defense: 7
10-flat hit: 8
11-float: 8
12-knuckle ball : 7
13-push: 7.5
14-classic chop : 5
15- Trow angle: medium

Only play 2 hours with it. A regular pimple and diameter. Goes more on the SP side. Sponge at 35 degree and more springy. A closer angle need to be done on the attacking stroke. The speed of this pimples help to create spin.
Push, attack and placement is its bread and butter. Chop like an sp. Good side chop keep the ball lower. Distortion is absent except for fast counter that created heavy knuckle ball that make the ball fall shorter. Opponant are more use to this type of shot that look a lot like inverted rubber.

so Distortion: 4 block 7 drive 8.75 defense 5 Overal LP/SP: 7.5 offense

So I added the overall score of the rubber for what is tend to go toward. LP defense 1 to SP offensive 10 caracteristics with a score and the style of play. So 4.0 offensive would be a LP like rubber made for offense. ( the rubber will be good for offense but more like LP shot. A 9 offensive will be rubber with have more SP caracteristics with a lot of speed and attack. A 5 offensive will be both LP and SP caracteristics with offensive style like an LP and SP ( All around) Play distortion, reversal change speed, block and good defense.

Waiting for your comment and rating on MP you tried.



I think the performance of a rubber very much depends on the blade we use , so these ratings are just a tiny part of the reality.If people use the same type of blade( I mean similar features ) as we have tested, then, chances are the information is more credible .

My views on K.O 1,3 mm on Sword 309 :

1-Speed : 6.5
2-Control: 9
3-short game: 7
4-long game: 8
5-own underspin: 6
6-own topspin: 5
7-reversal: 7.5
8-distortion: 8.5
9-block : 8.5
10-attack: 7
11-defense: 8.5
10-flat hit: 7
11-float: 8
12-push: 7
14-classic chop : 7.5
15-throw angle : low

Very good mp for a disruptive game close to the table .

Hope this helps.
Author:  maddrag [ 21 May 2018, 20:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
thank you for the peoples who rate so far. If you can add the blade you played the MP with it would be great with a description of the blade as to offense, defence or all around. It would help to understand better the MP. The sponge thickness is also good to know. Put any comment you want, it will help on the understanding of the MP.
Author:  maddrag [ 01 Jun 2018, 01:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
so players I'm waiting for your rating. !!!
Author:  1dennistt [ 01 Jun 2018, 03:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Nittaku PimpleMini 1.3 mm (played on a Giant Dragon Fiber Engery ALC and Kris II Offensive Blades 72 gram)
1-Speed 3.5
2-Control 9
3-short game 6
4-long game 7
5-own underspin 6
6-own topspin 6
7-reverse 4
8-disruption 4
9-block 6
10-attack 6
11-defense 8
10-flat hit 7
11-float 5
12-knuckle ball 4
13-push 6
14-classic chop 8
15-throw angle med-low

Nice all around pip, chops almost like a long pip but hits better than most long pips, counter and block are just not effective enough for my game, speed is lacking, nice if you can read spin and use the rubber to place the ball and add variety to your shots. Small, skinny, soft and well spaced out pips. If you want to chop more than counter, I would choose this over Keiler, also if you depend more on placement than deception. There is some deception to be had with this rubber, but it is not its strongest point.

SpinLord Keiler 1.5 to 1.8 mm (played on a Xiom Hayabusa Z Offensive blade 78 gram)

1-Speed 8
2-Control 8
3-short game 6
4-long game 8
5-own underspin 5
6-own topspin 6
7-reverse 4
8-disruption 6
9-block 7
10-attack 7
11-defense 8
10-flat hit 7
11-float 7
12-knuckle ball 4
13-push 6
14-classic chop 5
15-throw angle medium

Pips are conical shaped, about 1.2 mm long, soft elastic, sponge is medium to me, maybe 42-43 degree. Can be very disruptive depending on the strokes used, I have been able to hit, roll, or just push against backspin and be effective depending on who I am playing, which allows a lot of variation in the game. With the thicker sponges it can even counter effectively a step or 2 back from the table against topspin shots if I am forced back (or I can chop). It gives me the speed I was missing for my game in the Pimple Mini. It allows you to control the pace since it can absorb some speed when short blocking or soft countering topspin.
Author:  maddrag [ 01 Jun 2018, 04:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
thank you 1dennistt. The more we put the info in, the more we can make a nice summary board up so people can look at it and find what kind of Mp they want.
Author:  1dennistt [ 01 Jun 2018, 05:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: new Medium pips list carateristics-Help us to create a l
Thanks, this is a nice topic by the way. Unfortunately I haven't tried any of the rubbers the other posters have, with the exception of MilliTall II. It would be nice if I had tried a few more for reference, I have hit with a few others like Dr. N Diamant and Killer/Killer Pro, and TSP P-3 Curl, but not enough to form a definitive opinion, they didn't work for me as well as the 2 I reviewed. Since I started using Keiler I haven't gotten back on the EJ wagon, so I didn't test the newer entries in the medium pips category.

I think MilliTall II and Pimple Mini are very similar, with Pimple Mini having a little softer pips and maybe a little more grip when you bend the pips with maybe slightly less speed. Keiler is more of an allaround medium pip if there is such a thing.
Page 1 of 6 All times are UTC + 9:30 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/