OOAK Table Tennis Forum

By coincidence just put a slightly used sheet of Waran 2.0mm black on one of my TSP balsa Def blades to try out on the forehand. If it works might try Orkan on the BH as a contrast. Hoping the low throw of Waran will balance out the high throw of the blade.

FH Rubber: Testing a transition from inverted to SpinLord Waran 2.0
BH Rubber: Testing a transition from OX long pips to SpinLord ORKan 1.5

Wow that's some big changes dwruck, congratulations on taking a chance and changing your game.

I'm currently testing a sheet of Nittaku Do Knuckle, which seems to be working well for my game, at least as far as I can tell from one session, it doesn't feel as limiting as the Orkan II did. It seems to handle topspin easier than Orkan II did. I played one 1860ish player who had a lot of trouble timing the ball from my backhand pips, so I didn't get to see a lot of his forehand loops into my pips. I didn't get to try the Orkan II against him though.

I have a couple of other blades I may want to try the Orkan II on, one is balsa a Kris II, while the other is a slightly slower all-wood offensive blade with more flex than my standard Xiom Z+ blade.

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Donic Waldner World Champion 89 FL; Donic BlueStar A2 (Red) Max; DMS Firestorm (Black) 1.8

Thanks 1dennistt! I'm finding the transition on the backhand pretty easy. In fact, right now I'm certain it was a good change. I can still defend well, but my attacking and handling of fast dead balls is significantly improved when compared to using OX long pips.

The forehand, however...that's another story. Been playing "competitively" (at a club and in tournaments) almost 25 years now with a brush loop stroke. The muscle memory and reaction time to change to a short pip stroke on the forehand is going to be difficult. When I drill, and know what's coming, I do ok. But during matches...as you'd expect, I react very often with a closed blade when attacking or blocking top spin, which doesn't work at all. When I get it right and it works well, the game is really, really good. Right now I'm losing matches to guys I never lose to because of the forehand, but I've also taken games from a guy that I rarely beat when I do it right. So the potential is there. I just need to find the touch.

I have a sheet of the Super DO Knuckle sitting around, waiting to be tried. Any other thoughts on how it is different from ORKan? And have you tried the regular ORKan? I have a sheet of ORKan II that is also waiting to be given a try, just wondering how I'd like it compared to the slower version.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Sounds pretty normal for this type of transition. My only suggestion would be to practice more game situations instead of standard drills. After your regular warmup, incorporate more random placements into your drills, I usually did these after the first 3 to 5 balls of a rally. That way you set up, say with a serve and the first 2 shots like a standard drill then encourage your practice partner to play out the point just like in a game. That way you aren't worried about returning the serve variations you get in a game, but you still get some random balls into you drills. It might speed your progress along so matches aren't so different than what you practice.

From what I have read, the SDK has more of a wobble effect than the standard DK. It would be interesting to see how it works for you, it is another rubber I might pick up and test. I'll know more after a few more sessions with each of them. Some of the effects I get are similar between the 2 (Orkan II and Do Knuckle), but I haven't faced enough higher level players yet to get the feel for how they are going to work against competition above about 1900 level. I know Keiler works for me against these guys, so it will be interesting to see how these 2 new rubbers compare.

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Donic Waldner World Champion 89 FL; Donic BlueStar A2 (Red) Max; DMS Firestorm (Black) 1.8

I do like the Keiler also. So far, though, it just feels like the ORKan has worked a little better for me. And some of the guys I normally play have told me that the ORKan gives them more trouble when I block a loop. I'll have to give the Super DO Knuckle a try. I got a very thin sponge under it, just to try that out as opposed to the somewhat thicker sponges on the SpinLord pips. Appreciate the tips on the training, I will have to do that, I need that kind of random variable thrown in.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Now that I've been playing with ORKan more regularly, I thought I'd give an update. It is proving to be quite effective for my game. In matches, it blocks very well and forces a lot of errors. Players have a lot of trouble with how off-speed it is; they make a lot of mistakes because of the amount of pace it takes off the ball. Control is also really good, I'm able to place the ball pretty much wherever I want. Attacking can be done consistently and opponents have trouble with how flat and dead the ball is. If you're looking for a medium pip that uses speed in blocks and fast hitting to overpower opponents, this is not for you. To me, this rubber plays like a good hitting long pip, where you'll make points off of the off-speed blocks, flat and dead hits, and great placements. I have a sheet of ORKan II, with the harder sponge, that I'm interested to try out sometime, although my concern would be that it won't be as effective because it takes away the off-pace balls that are so effective.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Latest ORKan update. Tried the ORKan II. Initial impression on the ORKan II is that the hard sponge takes away one of the biggest benefits of the regular ORKan, its slower pace. Played my first tournament with the regular ORKan yesterday and was very happy with its performance. Serve return was great, was on fast serves was able to take off pace and place the ball exactly where I wanted. On shorter balls, I could either flip, drop short or aggressively push. When attacking, I got a number of winners, not through speed but through placement and spin. Opponents missed a number of balls because of how dead the return was. This rubber really suits my game, I might try it in 1.8 sponge (was using 1.5) just to see what difference there is.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

One more update on the ORKan from me. I am all-in on making this my permanent backhand rubber now. After more practice and a tournament, it has been very effective for me in all aspects. When blocking against top spin, while it does not give much in the way of spin reversal, it more than makes up for it in a braking effect on the ball. The pace is much slower than opponents expect forcing numerous errors from them on their timing. I am also able to block many loops with precise placement, and especially against slower loops, drop them very short. When playing aggressively, if I close the blade and focus on driving through the top of the ball, I can place them with precision and consistency, and while they are not fast shots, my opponents are frequently surprised by the amount of spin. I can also effectively punch dead balls that are very difficult for my opponents to counter attack. I think I've said this before, if you are looking for a rubber that can overwhelm your opponent with speed, this is not for you. But if you want a medium pip that plays like a slower long pip in many ways, but has more consistent hitting ability, this rubber is for you. I started out using the 1.5 mm sponge, but recently tried the 1.8 and found it to be even slower to use, making short drop shots even easier. I'd also tried the ORKan II, but I didn't like the harder sponge on it. To me, the main benefit of this is the number of errors forced by the off-speed pace of the ball, and with the harder sponge it took away some of that benefit.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I think part of the success for you with Orkan is the def blade blade you are playing it on. A harder, faster and stiffer blade may not give the control and braking effect you are enjoying.

My sheet of 1.5mm was a bit nothing on my Sauer & Troga Black & white but much better on my TSP black balsa 4.

Is the 1.8mm sponge better for adding spin e.g. when chopping or counter hitting with light topspin? Which sponge makes the ball stay low more when blocking i.e has more disruptive effect?

I think you probably have a good point about the blade. I always forget to mention what blade I am using, thanks for reminding me! I really like the Defplay Senso V3, it's light and gives me control and the ability to still attack.

I don't really chop with it, so I can't honestly give a good opinion on that. But when attacking with it, I'd say that from my experience so far, I think that I get a little more spin with the 1.8 mm. I think the slightly thicker sponge allows me to keep the ball in contact with the rubber a little longer. Even on slower flip shots I'm surprised at the amount of spin I can get, and people seem to mis-judge it a lot. When I hit with it, I am not looking to hit it hard, or hit through the back of the ball. Rather, the technique I've found effective against dead balls or back spin that sits up a bit is to flatten my blade so that it's almost parallel with the table and focus on hitting through the top half of the ball, giving me the feeling of bending the pips as I snap my wrist forward. But it's not a hard swing, it's more of a controlled shot that I can place very precisely and with a surprising amount of spin. Against top spin I don't try to counter hit as much as it's more of a punch block type of shot, depending on the speed and spin coming at me. If it's a hard, fast shot, I just passively block to get the "braking effect" of the slower speed. But if it's a slower loop, or one that's higher arc, I will get on the table and punch it back, which gives opponents a low, skidding, off speed ball that gives them trouble, which they generally have to weakly return, setting up an opportunity to smash with my forehand.

With the right blade angle, both thicknesses are good for keeping the ball low and short. On passive blocks, I'd say that neither one gets what I would consider to be a lot of reversal, and I honestly can't notice a difference between them. But having the slightly thicker sponge, I feel I can keep balls just a little shorter and still low, which really helps to force errors.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Great feedback thanks DWRUCK

I think one of the reasons I struggle a bit with Orkan is my semi inverted/spinny SP counter hitting style is not so good with vertically aligned pips like on Orkan. I had the same problem with Spectol on the backhand which also has vertically aligned pips. I find I need to either flat hit or roll the ball as opposed to my preferred top spin upward flick action.

A real strength of Orkan I have found is against long pips blockers, as the fast low spin balls from Orkan give them little spin to reverse and what ever spin they can impart does not have a lot of effect. Better in this regard than keiler which is itself not bad at all against backspin pushes/long pips blocks

I've found the same with ORKan against the LP blockers. I've also found it very effective against inverted players who try to give me fast, flat serves, like you'd typically try to do against long pips. With the ORKan I'm able to handle them quite easily, and place them short and precisely where I want.

I also liked Keiler when I first tried it. Had ORKan not come along, that's probably what I would still be using on my backhand. It was very controllable, and good for hitting. Definitely a bit faster than ORKan, but not what I'd consider to be a fast rubber. I did get feedback from a 2000-level looper that I regularly play that he found the ORKan to be much more disturbing on blocks than Keiler.

As my technique and playing style evolve, I'm going to continue to test different options for the backhand. I put a sheet of Nittaku Super DO Knuckle 0.5 mm on one of my test blades, and I've got a sheet of Dr Neubauer Explosion coming too. I gave up on the Aggressor and KO Pro, as they didn't suit my style at all. They also felt much too heavy for my taste. After the tournament this weekend I will feel more free to test out different combinations.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Sounds like we may be looking for similar things on the BH. So I will follow your lead for a while and stay away from Aggressor and KO Pro. I did try the former last summer but could not control it at all , probably needs far more technique than I have.

Look forward to your feedback on Explosion. Firestorm soft also sounds interesting and I am about to try out 388C1 on a spare blade and may try Hipster in 1.5mm on my Black & White blade.

Same problem for me with the Aggressor, it was very difficult for me to control and I couldn't get a consistent attack out of it. Both that and KO Pro just felt so HEAVY to me too.

Sounds like we have it worked out just right...I try some, you try some, we post notes here, and we can come up with the perfect option.

I'm especially interested in the 388C-1. Years ago, I used to play the 388D-1 Quattro version and thought it was a pretty good long pip. The Hipster just cracks me up with its name and logo. Too funny.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Played three events in a tournament yesterday, it was a bit of a mixed bag for the ORKan. Defensively, sometimes it was very effective, and sometimes it just got killed. It was most effective when I was able to take it as quickly off the bounce and aim low. I still found the throw of the rubber was high, so if I didn't get the blade angle just right, it popped up a little high, and that got shots killed. As I've noted earlier, there isn't a lot of spin reversal, so it really relies on its slower speed and good placement. In practice matches at the club, it seems like I got more errors than I did in the tournament. As matches went along, it felt like players would adjust to the off speed pace and I had to really work hard to get them to miss a shot. When attacking, I had to be really precise with placement, which did work effectively at times. Some players were able to give a hard counter hit to it if they judged the speed correctly.

Overall, I still like some things about this rubber and will keep testing it out. But, given that it didn't give me a great performance, I think I'll keep trying other medium and long pips. At the end of the day, for my last event, I tried a setup that had Nittaku Super DO Knuckle with 0.5 mm sponge on it. I had to open my blade angle a bit compared to the ORKan, but I thought the rubber was interesting. Hits were what I'd consider medium speed, but players were having more difficulty counter hitting against it, and it was giving a little more reversal.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5