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 Post subject: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 17:39 
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Hi folks

Played for the first time in a while last night. Tried my usual two bats - T80FX on a BTY Innershield blade, and D09c on a BTY JSH blade (both with Curl P1-R on the other side).

The T80FX is almost completely dead as it's nearly 2 years old. The D09c is... OK, but I don't like the weight of the JSH and the D09c feels legitimately terrible on the Innershield.

Do any of the OOAK forum goers have experience with Dignics rubbers?
  • Are the Dignics rubbers comparable, e.g. D05=T05, D80=T80 etc?
  • Are any professional modern defenders using Dignics instead of Tenergy? I think Filus still uses T05 Hard
  • I've never gotten on with T05, but I love T80 and T80FX. I find the FX sponge feels nicer on the Innershield than the normal version, so is it likely that the Dignics would feel worse again?

Basically I'm trying to work out whether I should just get another T80FX or if I should try a new Dignics.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 17:45 
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I've used the D09 for a while, I really liked it because it's very spinny for brush loops, but it does not have the nice feel that Tenergy 05 has when you go for that big loop. Having tried some of the Dignics rubbers, I don't really feel they're an improvement over the Tenergy series, and then it comes to spin the T05 is still king (except for brush loopers where the D09 comes out better).
Some people claim the Dignics series is more durable, but I'm not sure if that really true or just Butterfly marketing.

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 18:00 
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haggisv wrote:
I've used the D09 for a while, I really liked it because it's very spinny for brush loops, but it does not have the nice feel that Tenergy 05 has when you go for that big loop. Having tried some of the Dignics rubbers, I don't really feel they're an improvement over the Tenergy series, and then it comes to spin the T05 is still king (except for brush loopers where the D09 comes out better).
Some people claim the Dignics series is more durable, but I'm not sure if that really true or just Butterfly marketing.

Thanks haggis. I'm definitely a brush looper. The 09C works nicely on the JSH and my opponents have commented on how spinny it is... I just don't like the feeling as much as the T80FX on my Innershield.

Allegedly the D80 is even spinnier than the 09C?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 18:47 
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I have played with T80FX or D09C. So this is just my hunch. I guess which is spinnier depends how you loop. I would suppose the T80FX has much softer sponge thus, the dwell time is much longer and the spin comes from the long dwell time. Whereas the D09C has quite a hard sponge, but a tacky surface, so the spin will come from the rubber surface.


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 18:59 
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Yes, if you're a brush looper, I'm sure the D09 would be spinnier than any other Dignics or Tenergy, no matter what the ratings say. The only rubber I found to be spinnier is the Victas 401, which has a similar slightly sticky and soft topsheet and a firm sponge.

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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 19:36 
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FH: BTY Dignics 09C (1.9mm)
BH: TSP Curl P1-R (1.0mm)
I absolutely loved my Victas 401. Maybe I should just go back to that!

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2022, 18:45 
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moming wrote:
I have played with T80FX or D09C. So this is just my hunch. I guess which is spinnier depends how you loop. I would suppose the T80FX has much softer sponge thus, the dwell time is much longer and the spin comes from the long dwell time. Whereas the D09C has quite a hard sponge, but a tacky surface, so the spin will come from the rubber surface.


How you loop is important but softer sponges do not off more dwell. Softer just means you hit the blade effect quicker.

Deadness/tension, elasticity, tackiness etc. and getting all of them aligned just right is far more complex.

The speed and style of strokes you most often play at is the key here.

If anything a 'slower' sponge will give the most dwell.... Slow to go in and slow to go out. Yet we love the:

Hold it longer before sending it out faster.... (generally what T05 smashed the world stage for) and there is nothing particular soft or hard about that sponge. It's probably the perfect middle for everyone counter looping from 2 meters from the table.

---

I really appreciate hearing Haggisv saying his thoughts on Dignics because I have been recommended to upgrade to D05 after my love of T05. I just have bought into too much of the we have improved something biz.... only to find out that they got it right already...

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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 02:26 
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Dignisc series are all harder than Tenergy series.

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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 15:53 
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boz wrote:
moming wrote:
I have played with T80FX or D09C. So this is just my hunch. I guess which is spinnier depends how you loop. I would suppose the T80FX has much softer sponge thus, the dwell time is much longer and the spin comes from the long dwell time. Whereas the D09C has quite a hard sponge, but a tacky surface, so the spin will come from the rubber surface.


How you loop is important but softer sponges do not off more dwell. Softer just means you hit the blade effect quicker.

Deadness/tension, elasticity, tackiness etc. and getting all of them aligned just right is far more complex.

The speed and style of strokes you most often play at is the key here.

If anything a 'slower' sponge will give the most dwell.... Slow to go in and slow to go out. Yet we love the:

Hold it longer before sending it out faster.... (generally what T05 smashed the world stage for) and there is nothing particular soft or hard about that sponge. It's probably the perfect middle for everyone counter looping from 2 meters from the table.

---

I really appreciate hearing Haggisv saying his thoughts on Dignics because I have been recommended to upgrade to D05 after my love of T05. I just have bought into too much of the we have improved something biz.... only to find out that they got it right already...

Some interesting thoughts here boz.

I'm definitely a brush looper. I also use a lot of brush when I'm trying to roll the ball back from off the table (e.g. someone loops to my forehand, I either chop or try to roll it back with added topspin).

One of the problems I've had with H3 and D09c is that occasionally the ball just "falls off" the rubber when doing this. Never had this issue with T80/T80FX.

I've got quite fast arm speed, but quite a vertical loop. Based on your ideas here, what kind of rubber do you think would work for me? Can see an example at the very start of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5sCgkk ... canWraight

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 18:35 
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I've never had a tenergy or hurricane slip on me compared to ESN. I have seen that everything is possible in intense spin situations.

Quote:
One of the problems I've had with H3 and D09c is that occasionally the ball just "falls off" the rubber when doing this. Never had this issue with T80/T80FX.


Graze looping is at the mercy of tackiness. (it is not constant during the match) And generally going to be riskier than a grippy rubber like butterfly that you mention where your margin for entering the sponge that you rely on is thicker/ more consistent.

If I try to deeply enter the sponge against a heavy topspin at me (with hurricanes) I end up sending it high and longer almost never into the net. So I end up trying to graze more thinly.

As far I am concerned tacky rubbers are superior but they are the formula 1 that most of us can't drive. I am not good at them either but I don't give up.

I will be honest, I refuse to buy or play with Butterfly rubbers still and I have already spent more on them than most players here. If you can afford to use T80 or D80 or Fx or whatever that feels the best of those you are on a winner mate. I tried 05 ad 64 so I know 80 is just a rehash in between. Changing the formula for the sponge a bit 'harder' for me doesn't excite me. I wouldn't want more than the weight they already were at.

Sponsor me and I will use tenregy or dignics. :angel: :cash:

The 80 series is worth every penny. I just got none.

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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 20:16 
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If it works for you the stick with 80Fx. A half way house to Dignics but retaining a softer feel which you like, could be tenergy 19


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 00:02 
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boz wrote:
I've never had a tenergy or hurricane slip on me compared to ESN. I have seen that everything is possible in intense spin situations.

Quote:
One of the problems I've had with H3 and D09c is that occasionally the ball just "falls off" the rubber when doing this. Never had this issue with T80/T80FX.


Graze looping is at the mercy of tackiness. (it is not constant during the match) And generally going to be riskier than a grippy rubber like butterfly that you mention where your margin for entering the sponge that you rely on is thicker/ more consistent.

If I try to deeply enter the sponge against a heavy topspin at me (with hurricanes) I end up sending it high and longer almost never into the net. So I end up trying to graze more thinly.

As far I am concerned tacky rubbers are superior but they are the formula 1 that most of us can't drive. I am not good at them either but I don't give up.

I will be honest, I refuse to buy or play with Butterfly rubbers still and I have already spent more on them than most players here. If you can afford to use T80 or D80 or Fx or whatever that feels the best of those you are on a winner mate. I tried 05 ad 64 so I know 80 is just a rehash in between. Changing the formula for the sponge a bit 'harder' for me doesn't excite me. I wouldn't want more than the weight they already were at.

Sponsor me and I will use tenregy or dignics. :angel: :cash:

The 80 series is worth every penny. I just got none.


First of all, I need to apologize, I made a very bad typo, I meant to say I haven't played with either T80FX nor D09C, but I wrote it the other way around.

And watching you play, first, I must note that you are a better player than me, so take it with a grain of salt whatever I say.

Having said that. I wouldn't call your forehand "brushlooping" I would say it is pretty standard looper for a chopper, I almost never see choppers looping like Ma Long.

And because you are a chopper, I would lean more on the recommendation, if you like tacky rubbers with hard sponge, or softer sponge but less tacky. I think it's a personal choice. I would just like to say if you prefer hard tacky rubbers, probably D09C is the best choice right now, if you don't mind spending the $$$. But why did you start with T80FX anyway? If you always used FX sponge, I guess you would be shocked by the D09C hardness. But what's wrong with T80FX? If nothing, I would say keep it


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 00:24 
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Thanks for your input moming.

I used to use T80 religiously, then changed to T80FX. I can't remember why, but I think it just felt better. I get addicted to the little "click" that soft tensors can make. It definitely doesn't mean it was better for my game.

I got D09c when it came out purely because it was meant to be brilliant (and the price made me think "wow, this has to be special") but I just don't think it's the right rubber for me.

I might try Victas 401 again, or I might try T80 again. If they don't work I'll just stop being silly and go back to the T80FX... :)

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 04:32 
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I love the sound of soft rubbers too (or should say the sound of the blade). I used Rasanter 37 for a while and it was the best for that, but I lost so much control (bouncy when you don't want it).

Too soft and the stability goes out the window.
Too hard and you have to do big hard shots to get the full spin potential and the weight goes up, increasing fatigue and time to get to shots (but giving momentum).

Generally, the original is best in the middle.

Good luck with your play.

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 Post subject: Re: Dignics questions
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2022, 20:18 
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What I like about the softer fx Ternergys having just started using 05fx after too many bouncy medium soft Euro tensors, is their control, easy opening up spin and precision/accuracy. They are fastish for sure but linear without the sudden catapult effect as in say Joola Rhyzer 43 or Andro Powergrip SFX


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