OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I received this lovely new promo rubber to review thanks to Alex's kind nature (he really should have that looked at)! Unfortunately it arrived this morning and my regular weekly training session was last night. I might give it a bash at this week's league fixture on Thursday night.

The uncut weight is 66.98g, sheet size is 169mm by 169mm.

Here are some pictures!



Packaging is nice and solid!



The sheet is of the usual high quality you expect from ESN. The sponge is large-pored and quite soft (labelled as 40 degrees). Topsheet is very grippy and has no blemishes or marks anywhere (yet!).



For those who like side-on comparison pictures (and who doesn't?)...



This image is showing (from top to bottom):

V>15 Limber
Rasant Beat
Acuda Blue P3
Bluefire JP03
Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF

The V>15 and TU-SF have very similar pip size and spacing (the V>15 is ever so slightly taller), while the Rasant, Bluefire and Acuda all have taller and more widely spaced pips to some degree. (note - I had to weigh the stack down because the Acuda has a bit of a reverse dome, which was pushing the other rubbers up somewhat - even with the weight on you can still see it a little).

Bigger images are available here, if you need a better quality peek:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108579723250927437374/General?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Review to follow!

Thanks Andy, I'm looking forward to your findings. Good that you can also compare it to Bluefire JP03 as this is my current FH rubber of choice.

My black Victas V>15 Limber max arrived yesterday from Australia. Fast as usual! If I'm lucky, I can test it next week. If not, it will be for the beginning of August (club closed & I'm on vacation).

My sheet was 170x170 and weight is 65g, slightly lighter than Andy's red one.

Here are my pics:

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Hey pipsy - good stuff. I'm more likely to use a softer rubber on my BH side these days, and JP03 is one of my all-time favorites of all-time on that wing. Of all-time!

Had the match last night and I used the V>15. Won all three of mine, and I was very, very happy with how things went. I'm still not going to give loads of info about the rubber yet because this was an away fixture and the opposing team decided to use cell balls (their walls are white, and in this summer season it's the home side's prerogative for ball selection - I don't blame them for their decision, the lack of orange plastic is a shambles). So it's hard to give an accurate description of the rubber from last night's play - I've been using plastic for a while now, and going back to cell for a single fixture adds some confusion to the mix.

I used V>01 Limber for a while on the BH side, and V>15 limber is really different. V>01L seemed almost like an ESN retro throwback to me. At a time when a lot of the ESN range were becoming less flyaway and jumpy, V>01L came along and felt like an old-gen ESN experience (but with a better, grippier topsheet). It was soft, bouncy, loud, fast. I liked it a lot, but it was a bit unpredictable at times (while being a lot of fun).

V>15L is more of a child-of-the-times kind of rubber. Even though it's listed as 40deg, it plays firmer than that. The topsheet has the monster grip you see in current ESN offerings, but feels medium-elastic and predictable. During play it isn't overly bouncy and is very linear in the low/medium gears. Which is just excellent for my BH needs - you get heaps of spin on a brushy shot without a slingy response sending the ball too high. But you get a surprising level of stability on blocks and punches without huge spin sensitivity - I didn't feel like the rubber was washing out on direct shots. On harder shots you do get an extra elastic kick, and it's still a fast rubber overall.

When thinking about comparisons to recent rubbers, I start to think about this being something like a softer cousin to Evolution MX-S, which is a good thing. It has a lot of MX-S's precision, solidity (even though it's 40deg) and reliability in the close game, but has a little more elasticity and dynamic response on effort shots, which for me makes it more user-friendly and better in the real world.

Another comparison I could make is with Tenzone Ultra SF, another recent 40deg ESN (different sponge configuration though - it has smaller pores for example). I like TZUSF a lot, but it can bite me sometimes when I'm not paying attention. TZUSF has a gentle low-gear nature but then BAM! It's alive and slamming doors and raiding your fridge at midnight like a hormonal teenager. V>15 feels very much like TZUSF in the low gears but remains linear for longer and is easier to use.

But take all of that with a pinch of salt. The key question is - how does it play with plastic? I'll find out on Monday night.

Okay, so I had a good session with V>15 Limber last night with XSF and NP+ balls. Here's what I think:

Speed

It's a solid OFF- type of rubber. It has a "tough" feel to it and has a suppressed bounce at low speeds. During more active strokes it's plenty fast enough to do pretty much any type of role an allround attacker would want. Feels harder than the indicated 40 degrees.

Throw

Medium. This is probably the most medium throw rubber I've ever used. It's very predictable and reliable, and never feels flyaway or overly slingy.

Spin

Good! It didn't feel class-leading, but does everything well. Good grip when brushing, good effect when looping harder from the sponge. Perhaps it suits driving a smidge more than looping due to its general feel of solidity, and it's hard to get a massive arc from it.

Short Game

Incredible. Really, really solid. The lack of jumpiness and extreme spin sensitivity makes it an absolute rock in the ugly poking side of the game.

Two things worth noting here - this is an amazing rubber for flicking and flipping on service return. One of the best I've ever used.

Also - although it blocks very well, there can be a resulting lack of pace leaving you exposed. Punch/active blocking is key to blocking people down, but on the other hand you can take some pace off the ball with soft hands and get a double-bounce block return going on, which is a nice weapon against mid-distance loopers in these plastic days.

Overall

The above notes seem a bit brief because most of the things I'd like to say are going to be in this section. They're hard to put into their own category.

This is probably the best soft-ish rubber I've ever used in terms of the blend of characteristics it offers.

Some rubbers (particularly soft ones, or tacky I suppose) have very clear lines which separate behaviour during certain types of shot. Some examples I can think of - Rakza 7 Soft, which is quite bouncy but has a reasonably low top speed (tough short game, easy active strokes). Tenzone Ultra Soft, which has a suppressed bounce but fast top speed (easy short game, speed switches on abruptly). Bluefire JP03, which has a very soft, elastic topsheet (throws high on looping, lower on driving). These rubbers have wide gearing, or are non-linear, or are a PITA until you adjust to them. They can be highly effective, but you need to know what you're getting into and YMMV and blade compatibility etc etc.

Harder rubbers tend to be more linear, and offer more power in general (and forgive me, there are some massive generalisations here). But it tends to be harder to tap into the mechanical spin at low impact speeds, and for some the more restricted top-end of soft sponges can be useful.
Now, the last rubber I used which had an awesome blend of everything was Tenzone Ultra. Good grab, not too sensitive to spin, reasonable pace, massively linear, easy to use but still dangerous. I was really excited to get Tenzone Ultra SF when that came out because as much as I liked TZU it was too hard for my BH. But I was somewhat disappointed by TZU-SF – it lost some of the unique blend of TZU by being quite elastic and snappy, and the on/off nature was a surprise to me (don’t get me wrong – great rubber, but hard for me to handle).

V>15 Limber is the soft version of TZU I always wanted. It feels almost supernatural to use. Hitting, brushing, drop shots, blocking, pushing, everything just works. It’s incredibly forgiving and never surprised me during testing. The easiest example I can give is when transitioning between drives and loops – there is enough grip and flexibility in the topsheet to loop well and easily, but enough core stability to drive and punch without the airy feel you might expect from a 40 degree sponge. A comparison to Acuda Blue P3, which also has a 40 degree sponge, is worth noting – they are night and day. P3 has lots of that classic soft tensor feel, while V>15 Limber has very little. It’s quite a marvel and probably personifies the idea of a German/Jap hybrid.

There are some downsides. The supressed bounce and linear nature, combined with a lack of raw turbonutter speed, means that half-arsed strokes give you very little reward. Working from 1-2 metres with big swings gets great results. In-close with active play gives great results. Passive play, especially when up at the table, gives the opponent a nothing ball, mid-table, no threat, and with the plastic ball being so easy to attack will result in a you/toast interface. And this is what I missed, in a way. Using Acuda Blue P3 on my other blade was the easiest way to see this – a short, stabby stroke with P3 still produced okay pace and penetration, but with V>15 Limber you get what you put in.

(as a side-note, it occurs to me as I write this that V>15 Limber actually reminds me a lot of Stiga Airoc M in terms of results. Both require commitment, both have an easy-to-use approach to linear pace, and both can serve up cannon fodder to the opponent if you’re too passive. The key difference is that V>15 Limber has a LOT more topsheet grip and far better impact feel (Airoc feels very vague to me), and so can play mixed-mode brush/drive far better than Airoc)

So there you go! If I had to pick one word to sum up V>15 Limber it would be “adaptive”, or maybe “fluid” if I was in a poetic mood. If you were in a less than generous mood then you might say that this is a boring rubber, but maybe having no clear weakness is something of a rare jewel in itself?

Great review AndySmith, well worth the test sheet.

Sound like maybe its the kind of thing I'm looking for in an upgrade. I like boring eerrr I mean fluid

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Excellent review Andy!

I need to write-up my review of the extra and the headlines are very similar; competent at everything without being extreme in any single quality.

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Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

What a great review, Andy!

My own additions will be for August. I will focus on how the rubber performs for chopping. The way you describe it, it could be a great rubber for chopping away from the table combined with looping attacks.

IMO, Bluefire JP03 is already a quite linear rubber (compared with f.e. X-plode sensitive, Calibra Sound, Nimbus Sound) and excellent for chopping. I think linearity is what a chopper needs, so I'm really looking forward to try it... Thing is, my JP3 is 1.8 thickness and the Victas Limber is 2.1. That could make a big difference on its own...

My set-up will most probably be:

Victas Koji Matsusita Offensive + Victas V>15 Limber MAX + TSP Millitall 2 1.1

Can't wait (but I have to )

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Excellent review, thank you AndySmith Your comparison to other (similar) rubbers is most useful to.

One question... some really soft rubbers are great for smashing, and seem to just hit through any spin. What was this rubber like for smashing (if you tried it)?

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Yeah, I'm not a chopper by any stretch of the imagination, but the medium throw and incredibly steady nature does help a lot with this side of the game.

I would say that it's more all round in outlook (but not speed) when compared to JP03 - less elastic snap from the topsheet, but rock solid and dependable in every way. V>15 feels more powerful than JP03 in this way too. With JP03 (which I love, btw), a hard loop can be surprisingly fast once the topsheet and sponge are engaged together. With V>15 I can swing harder and produce a really heavy ball without worrying about the result being too dynamic. It's a soft tensor with a lot of hard tensor characteristics in this respect.

I suppose that the only concern about this one from a modern defender's perspective is the lower arc, but a lot of high-level defenders use T64 on their FH side and that's around the same kind of throw overall.

Ah yes, smashing. I should have covered that.

V>15 is good on heavy smashes. You know, the ones where you're in position and can swing freely. It has the accuracy and low spin sensitivity to really help with this.

Some soft rubbers help with low-power flat smashes in that they bottom out easily, which seem to sort of reduce the reaction from the topsheet somewhat (perhaps - I've always wondered about this - could be wrong). The ball goes straight in, straight out, and that's it. V>15 limber isn't really like this - the sponge feels quite resistant, which is probably helping in the other areas of the game. So if you're not quite in position and can't get straight through the ball, it can lose power or react to the spin more than something like Rakza 7 Soft.

So it's OK, but you need to be committed and decisive.

Sooooo.

Would anyone else, of reasonable forum standing, like to give V>15 Limber a go? Drop me a PM!

Brilliant review Andy, I play an all-round type of game, been using 1.7 Tenergy 05FX on my FH, for 2 years, going to give this one a try.

As TSP and Victas rubbers are made by the same company.

Victas V>15 Limber = TSP Ventus spin?????????

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brokkie

Victas are a small subdivision of TSP. They're being marketed differently, perhaps as a bit of a specialist.



No, really different. They're both ESN tensors, but the Ventus range isn't anything like V>15 Limber. I've used Ventus Soft and Spin in the past, and they were bouncier and had less grippy topsheets.

Are you sure that Ventus Soft and Spin were bouncier?
I have Soft version and it is a rubber with exceptional control.