OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip

The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory.

apophis wrote:

The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory.

I'm pretty sure the Evolution rubbers are NOT made by ESN. Lots of evidence, but I don't feel like revisiting the issue right now (you can look for my postings on the subject elsewhere on the forum). Tibhar is quite coy about where they are made, or even if they're assembled from components from different countries. Excellent rubber, but it lasts as long as ESN sheets do (which isn't very).

Iskandar

iskandar taib wrote:

apophis wrote:

The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory.

I was pretty sure that the last sheet I got had made in Germany on it. I'll have to check next time i get a new sheet though, in either case, I agree its a good rubber sheet that plays well regardless of country of origin.

I am still a believer of the 'engineered to fail' type of lifespan we see in rubber sheets though. Signer almost went out of business because of having robust components in sewing machines and now plastic parts are engineered to fail so there is ongoing sales. I think the method is solid operation, until a little failure, to keep the consumer happy but still buying new product. Which would highlight the effective lifespans of rubber sheets give or take a few months.

As for MX-S its a lot firmer then the powersponge, EL-S would be a closer match from those two. I liked the EL-S but found it too soft for my own play, but coming from Rasant Powersponge it will feel closer, i believe its firmer in the the sponge then the rasant is. That said it is a really nice sheet to play with.

D. Rubber Packaging 1. Country of origin statement The racket covering’s retail packaging must state its country or countries of origin. The simple unqualified statement “Made in <Country>” is preferred; however a more complex statement is also permitted if the preferred option is not applicable. The statement must be in English and visible from the outside of the packaging.

Some examples of country of origin statements:
• Made in <Country> - this is preferred
• Topsheet Made in <Country 1>, Sponge Made in <Country 2>
• Assembled in <Country 1> using materials from <Country 2>

The country of origin statement for each authorised racket covering will be stored by the ITTF and may be displayed on ITTF.com. Substantive changes to a racket covering’s country of origin are not permitted. For example, the country of origin statement may not change from “Made in Canada” to “Made in USA”. However minor changes to wording are permitted, after the change has been recorded in the ITTF database. A change which only reflects a change in sponge is also permitted.

For racket coverings which are sold with multiple versions of sponge, a different country of origin statement may be used for each version, in order to specify sponges from different countries.

Thx Cobalt for the info, really appreciated

Looks a good alternative.
But just want a little bit of spinsacrifice for more speed.

Like this combinations in rubbers:
* HARD sponge and HARD topscheet
* HARD sponge and MEDIUM+ topscheet
* MEDIUM+ sponge and HARD topscheet

These combination work the best for me: crispy hard feeling with reasonable control.
Medium ( or Low ) throw angle.
And when the balls goes on the other side of the table it dives a little bit more down.

Maybe somebody can give me advice in these rubbers (Like Andro Rasant Powergrip) ?

Thx

Author:	Perham [ 13 Mar 2018, 23:40 ]
Post subject:	Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
Hey guys! Since I’ve switched to Tibhar Stratus Power Wood with Rasant Powergrip + Rasant Powersponge on two sides, I couldn’t be happier with my setup. But recently I have noticed that the grip of the topsheet is slowly fading away. I have only used the rubber for two months (around 12 hours a week). I was thinking to replace them with similar but more durable rubbers. I really like the less tacky/more grippy quality of this rubber, but l can live without the catapult effect, so even if the rubber is a bit different in that regard that’s not a problem. So far the forehand rubber (powergrip) is wearing out faster than the backhand, but that’s probably because I use it more often in my game. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	iskandar taib [ 14 Mar 2018, 01:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
There are tons of similar rubbers out there, but finding one that lasts longer is going to be hard, since they're all made in the same factory using the same technology! I suppose you COULD try Japanese (e.g. Tenergy 05 or Tibhar Evolution M-) but I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim those last any longer, either! So if you like Rasant Powergrip and you find the grip going away, well, it's time to plonk down for another sheet... You COULD do what I do, but not everyone likes to do that... Iskandar

Author:	Silver [ 14 Mar 2018, 07:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
I always felt that T05 was pretty short lived. Playing 4 or 5 days a week for a few hrs each session, I was replacing every 2-3 mths. The topsheet loses significant grip after that period and the bounce gets a bit slower, but it was still fine really. Still a lot spinnier and bouncier than many other rubbers.

Author:	apophis [ 14 Mar 2018, 12:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory. I have found the XIOM topsheets rather long lasting. That said, 12hrs a week of play is a fair amount of hours of play a month. 100-150ish hours of play before performance loss is not bad. What I also found is that the sponge on my forehand sheets, as I am hitting it harder on that side as well as using it more often, seems to loose some of its effect on the ball. So shots that are not just using the topsheet for spin like serves and pushing, but utilising the sponge as well, loop drive for example, seem to have a slight drop in performance. I think that this is normal, also engineered into the sheets to promote sales. At this point I use Falco long boost to give me some extra life out of the rubber sheet. Its definitely not like a new sheet, but it saves me a few months of use before buying a new one.

Author:	haggisv [ 14 Mar 2018, 13:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
With a bit of care you can get more life out of a rubber as well. Clean it very regularly, and use an adhesive protection sheet when you store it away. This does help it retain grip for longer.

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Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=32612	Page 1 of 1

Author:	iskandar taib [ 14 Mar 2018, 18:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
apophis wrote: The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory. I'm pretty sure the Evolution rubbers are NOT made by ESN. Lots of evidence, but I don't feel like revisiting the issue right now (you can look for my postings on the subject elsewhere on the forum). Tibhar is quite coy about where they are made, or even if they're assembled from components from different countries. Excellent rubber, but it lasts as long as ESN sheets do (which isn't very). Iskandar

Author:	Perham [ 14 Mar 2018, 22:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
I’ve been asking around a bit, and I heard MX-S as an alternative a few times. I think even if I’m careful with my rubbers, still in the long run I need to change to something else since Rasant series is discontinued. Do you guys also think that MX-S would be a suitable replacement? Also, instead of Powersponge I thought I can use EL-S. Is that true? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	apophis [ 15 Mar 2018, 07:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
iskandar taib wrote: apophis wrote: The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory. I'm pretty sure the Evolution rubbers are NOT made by ESN. Lots of evidence, but I don't feel like revisiting the issue right now (you can look for my postings on the subject elsewhere on the forum). Tibhar is quite coy about where they are made, or even if they're assembled from components from different countries. Excellent rubber, but it lasts as long as ESN sheets do (which isn't very). Iskandar I was pretty sure that the last sheet I got had made in Germany on it. I'll have to check next time i get a new sheet though, in either case, I agree its a good rubber sheet that plays well regardless of country of origin. I am still a believer of the 'engineered to fail' type of lifespan we see in rubber sheets though. Signer almost went out of business because of having robust components in sewing machines and now plastic parts are engineered to fail so there is ongoing sales. I think the method is solid operation, until a little failure, to keep the consumer happy but still buying new product. Which would highlight the effective lifespans of rubber sheets give or take a few months. As for MX-S its a lot firmer then the powersponge, EL-S would be a closer match from those two. I liked the EL-S but found it too soft for my own play, but coming from Rasant Powersponge it will feel closer, i believe its firmer in the the sponge then the rasant is. That said it is a really nice sheet to play with.

Author:	BJ20 [ 01 Jun 2018, 20:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
Also want an alternative for Andro Rasant Powergrip guys. Loved the crispy hard feeling of the rubber. Excellent speed and spin for me. Maybe an alternative in Donic or Andro Hexer series ? MX P , MX S and Tenergy are already an alternative I think. Are there more ? Just love a HARD rubber/sponge and medium-low throw angle Like the Powergrip had. Miss this legend already Blade is DonicWUSC Somebody can recommend me ? Thx

Author:	Cobalt [ 01 Jun 2018, 21:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
One fellow in our club replaced it with Donic Baracuda. No idea how similar they are but he seems happy enough. Should be plenty of spin without the catapult.

Author:	BJ20 [ 02 Jun 2018, 04:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
Thx Cobalt for the info, really appreciated Looks a good alternative. But just want a little bit of spinsacrifice for more speed. Like this combinations in rubbers: * HARD sponge and HARD topscheet * HARD sponge and MEDIUM+ topscheet * MEDIUM+ sponge and HARD topscheet These combination work the best for me: crispy hard feeling with reasonable control. Medium ( or Low ) throw angle. And when the balls goes on the other side of the table it dives a little bit more down. Maybe somebody can give me advice in these rubbers (Like Andro Rasant Powergrip) ? Thx

Author:	ondras.horak [ 14 Sep 2018, 17:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
For sure Hexer Powergrip would work well to replace Rasant Powergrip. There is my review in another topic if you would be interested: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=33403

Author:	iskandar taib [ 07 Nov 2019, 03:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
apophis wrote: iskandar taib wrote: apophis wrote: The Tibhar Evolutions are made by ESN, not in aJapanese factory. I'm pretty sure the Evolution rubbers are NOT made by ESN. Lots of evidence, but I don't feel like revisiting the issue right now (you can look for my postings on the subject elsewhere on the forum). Tibhar is quite coy about where they are made, or even if they're assembled from components from different countries. Excellent rubber, but it lasts as long as ESN sheets do (which isn't very). Iskandar I was pretty sure that the last sheet I got had made in Germany on it. I'll have to check next time i get a new sheet though, in either case, I agree its a good rubber sheet that plays well regardless of country of origin. I am still a believer of the 'engineered to fail' type of lifespan we see in rubber sheets though. Signer almost went out of business because of having robust components in sewing machines and now plastic parts are engineered to fail so there is ongoing sales. I think the method is solid operation, until a little failure, to keep the consumer happy but still buying new product. Which would highlight the effective lifespans of rubber sheets give or take a few months. As for MX-S its a lot firmer then the powersponge, EL-S would be a closer match from those two. I liked the EL-S but found it too soft for my own play, but coming from Rasant Powersponge it will feel closer, i believe its firmer in the the sponge then the rasant is. That said it is a really nice sheet to play with. Has anyone bought a sheet recently? The reason I bring this up is a "new" regulation (actually it's been around since 2017, and was to be phased in from 2015). It's in the T4 Technical Leaflet (Section D, #1 - Packaging): Quote: D. Rubber Packaging 1. Country of origin statement The racket covering’s retail packaging must state its country or countries of origin. The simple unqualified statement “Made in <Country>” is preferred; however a more complex statement is also permitted if the preferred option is not applicable. The statement must be in English and visible from the outside of the packaging. Some examples of country of origin statements: • Made in <Country> - this is preferred • Topsheet Made in <Country 1>, Sponge Made in <Country 2> • Assembled in <Country 1> using materials from <Country 2> The country of origin statement for each authorised racket covering will be stored by the ITTF and may be displayed on ITTF.com. Substantive changes to a racket covering’s country of origin are not permitted. For example, the country of origin statement may not change from “Made in Canada” to “Made in USA”. However minor changes to wording are permitted, after the change has been recorded in the ITTF database. A change which only reflects a change in sponge is also permitted. For racket coverings which are sold with multiple versions of sponge, a different country of origin statement may be used for each version, in order to specify sponges from different countries. So what does it say on Tibhar Evolution packages now? And are they still 1cm longer than most Tensors? For what it's worth, the MX-P package as displayed on tabletennis11 lacks an origin statement, but then again it might be old photographs. Note that they mention "multiple versions of sponge" and "changes in sponge". Which means those are legal (despite what Igor says). Iskandar

Author:	Alente [ 23 Jun 2020, 19:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
apophis wrote: I was pretty sure that the last sheet I got had made in Germany on it. I'll have to check next time i get a new sheet though, in either case, I agree its a good rubber sheet that plays well regardless of country of origin. I am still a believer of the 'engineered to fail' type of lifespan we see in rubber sheets though. Signer almost went out of business because of having robust components in sewing machines and now plastic parts are engineered to fail so there is ongoing sales. I think the method is solid operation, until a little failure, to keep the consumer happy but still buying new product. Which would highlight the effective lifespans of rubber sheets give or take a few months. As for MX-S its a lot firmer then the powersponge, EL-S would be a closer match from those two. I liked the EL-S but found it too soft for my own play, but coming from Rasant Powersponge it will feel closer, i believe its firmer in the the sponge then the rasant is. That said it is a really nice sheet to play with. I'm sure you are right with the part about engineered to fail. It's a business strategy anyway.

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Author:	Aurelian [ 24 Jun 2020, 07:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Alternatives to Rasant Powergrip
BJ20 wrote: Thx Cobalt for the info, really appreciated Looks a good alternative. But just want a little bit of spinsacrifice for more speed. Like this combinations in rubbers: * HARD sponge and HARD topscheet * HARD sponge and MEDIUM+ topscheet * MEDIUM+ sponge and HARD topscheet These combination work the best for me: crispy hard feeling with reasonable control. Medium ( or Low ) throw angle. And when the balls goes on the other side of the table it dives a little bit more down. Maybe somebody can give me advice in these rubbers (Like Andro Rasant Powergrip) ? Thx Why don't you try Palio Ak47 Red or Sanwei T88 Ultra Spin, these are chinese rubbers with completely non tacky or slightly tacky topsheets (but still grippy) and the sponge is hard and with rather low throw angle (especially Sanwei)? Or you can try the hard versions of Tenergy 05, why not, the topsheet has the same amount of tackyness as Sanwei but costs 6-7 times more Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk