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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 05:59 
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Blade: Yinhe V5 Kiso-Hinoki
FH: H3
BH: Sanwei Target National
igorponger wrote:
learninTT wrote:


And now try to convince me guys that H3 national which is designed for player with powerful pro technique is good for humble amateurs who is not putting on that much power. That national sponge must be hard as hell, H50?




https://www.prott.vip/Product-Details.a ... ode=starH3
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=586473103558

H41.5 H42 H37

Be happy.


Fake?


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 07:53 
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Blade: Butterfly Matsushita Pro
FH: Rakza Z
BH: Dawei 388D-1
Although i am using H3 with blue sponge National, this was initially just for experimenting. I have not done a direct comparison between national sheets with orange sheets. However, i have tried provincial with both, and did not find the difference to be that great. So, save the money. Incidentally, Ma long uses 42 degrees, most of us shouldn't. To be frank, i find that the Loki GTX pro allows me to reach similar sorts of level of play as the H3 National BS, but I am not an elite player by any stretch.

To clean rubbers, I use a couple of drops of olive oil, which are spread all over and then wiped off immediately with a lint free cloth. Works a treat. I do this immediately after playing and then attach protection sheets, which will stick quite nicely to tacky rubber. Water and hand also works, but i am allergic to probably latex in the rubber, and rubbing my palm across the rubber irritates my hand badly.

PS. The absolute tackiest rubber I have used is Three Sword Leap, white packet and cheap. It feels very hard and requires a lot of effort.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 07:58 
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Blade: Gambler IM8 Hinoki
FH: Gambler Burst
BH: Gambler Mech Tek
learninTT wrote:
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
Hi Learnin,

Have you ever considered trying Gambler Burst again? I have it on Thor's Hammer on 2 blades. 1 sheet is 3 months old playing 5+ hours a week and the other is 3 weeks old. Both will hold a ball for at least 6 seconds upside down. I like them much more than I liked the "old school" Chinese rubbers, as well as H3 neo.


TheKLeifheit13,
Thank you for chiming in with that recommendation. It is funny you should mention it but I have been looking at Gambler Burst Thor's Hammer as well. I have played with the Burst GearZ in the past, which has a too soft sponge for my liking, but not with Thor's Hammer. It was OOS for a while but seems to be back in stock again. How would you rate the hardness of the Thor's Hammer sponge in DHS degrees?

Thanks!



So I have no idea what degree sponge was on the H3n I had, but I haven't been able to hit through the Thor's Hammer sponge yet and I can swing pretty hard. I'm actually downgrading to the stock blue diamond sponge to try and find a sponge I can activate that's still hard enough to stand up to my normal loops. I do have to say that the Thor's sponge has a lot of power available, though. I agree that the gearz sponge is too soft so hopefully the normal sponge is the Goldilocks of the 3.


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 11:08 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Palio AK47 Red
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
So I have no idea what degree sponge was on the H3n I had, but I haven't been able to hit through the Thor's Hammer sponge yet and I can swing pretty hard. I'm actually downgrading to the stock blue diamond sponge to try and find a sponge I can activate that's still hard enough to stand up to my normal loops. I do have to say that the Thor's sponge has a lot of power available, though. I agree that the gearz sponge is too soft so hopefully the normal sponge is the Goldilocks of the 3.


If you haven't already purchased it, I would advise you to call up Zeropong and speak to them. I spoke to Tom (owner) when I called up a few months back and he told me that the GearZ sponge was their mid-hard offering. I do not know how the Blue Diamond sponge compares in terms of hardness but he indicated that they may be phasing it out in the near future. I do not see it available in Blue Diamond sponge on their website and I do not know if that is the default sponge. However, they should be able to guide you if you call them up.

As an aside, I took a look at the Burst rubber on my backup paddle and it is definitely more tacky than the newer STN on my primary paddle. I will definitely be buying the Burst Thor's Hammer to replace my STN.

Thanks!

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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei Fextra, Palio HK1997 Gold on FH, Sanwei T88-Taiji on BH
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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 13:28 
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fmarek wrote:
igorponger wrote:
learninTT wrote:


And now try to convince me guys that H3 national which is designed for player with powerful pro technique is good for humble amateurs who is not putting on that much power. That national sponge must be hard as hell, H50?




https://www.prott.vip/Product-Details.a ... ode=starH3
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=586473103558

H41.5 H42 H37

Be happy.


Fake?


The rubber or Igor? :lol: Igor's real. Probably. :lol:

There used to be all sorts of guides to tell you how to tell real from fake National H3. I remember one tip - if it actually says "National Version" (in Chinese) on the back then it's fake. Made sense back when "National Version" meant personal rubber, probably not so much any more, with DHS selling their own official "National versions" with holograms.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 18:01 
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Blade: Yinhe V5 Kiso-Hinoki
FH: H3
BH: Sanwei Target National
igorponger wrote:


There used to be all sorts of guides to tell you how to tell real from fake National H3. I remember one tip - if it actually says "National Version" (in Chinese) on the back then it's fake. Made sense back when "National Version" meant personal rubber, probably not so much any more, with DHS selling their own official "National versions" with holograms.

Iskandar[/quote]

All good guys, it is useful info anyway. If Ma Long uses H42 then whoever told me Chinese pro use very hard rubbers up to 50 simply misinformed me or I misunderstood.

Anyway, thanks

P.S.

Yesterday I did test of how long my STN holds the ball and got bored holding the racket for 20 sec. That was before the session. After 3.5 hours of play, I tried again and then it held for like 1 - 3 sec. I don't know if it needs to be any better!


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 19:15 
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Blade: Gambler IM8 Hinoki
FH: Gambler Burst
BH: Gambler Mech Tek
learninTT wrote:
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
So I have no idea what degree sponge was on the H3n I had, but I haven't been able to hit through the Thor's Hammer sponge yet and I can swing pretty hard. I'm actually downgrading to the stock blue diamond sponge to try and find a sponge I can activate that's still hard enough to stand up to my normal loops. I do have to say that the Thor's sponge has a lot of power available, though. I agree that the gearz sponge is too soft so hopefully the normal sponge is the Goldilocks of the 3.


If you haven't already purchased it, I would advise you to call up Zeropong and speak to them. I spoke to Tom (owner) when I called up a few months back and he told me that the GearZ sponge was their mid-hard offering. I do not know how the Blue Diamond sponge compares in terms of hardness but he indicated that they may be phasing it out in the near future. I do not see it available in Blue Diamond sponge on their website and I do not know if that is the default sponge. However, they should be able to guide you if you call them up.

As an aside, I took a look at the Burst rubber on my backup paddle and it is definitely more tacky than the newer STN on my primary paddle. I will definitely be buying the Burst Thor's Hammer to replace my STN.

Thanks!


The blue diamond is the sponge on the "basic" Burst and Big Gun. It's between the Gearz sponge and Thor's Hammer. They sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness. I think Burst is the right choice for you if you want tacky. By far it's my favorite topsheet I've used.


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2019, 20:59 
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Blade: Butterfly Matsushita Pro
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fmarek wrote:
All good guys, it is useful info anyway. If Ma Long uses H42 then whoever told me Chinese pro use very hard rubbers up to 50 simply misinformed me or I misunderstood.

Anyway, thanks

P.S.

Yesterday I did test of how long my STN holds the ball and got bored holding the racket for 20 sec. That was before the session. After 3.5 hours of play, I tried again and then it held for like 1 - 3 sec. I don't know if it needs to be any better!
Probably worth remembering that DHS uses a different scale to most Euro/Japanese rubbers.

And the picking up the ball and holding it upside down trick is a red herring really. The true test is in how much rotation you can get on the ball in real play.

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SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
Yinhe 980XX/Tibhar Evolution MX-D/Dawei 388D-1


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2019, 00:10 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Palio AK47 Red
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
The blue diamond is the sponge on the "basic" Burst and Big Gun. It's between the Gearz sponge and Thor's Hammer. They sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness. I think Burst is the right choice for you if you want tacky. By far it's my favorite topsheet I've used.


Thank you for the information about the various Gambler sponges and where they sit in relation to each other w.r.t hardness. Could you let me know if the Gambler folks provided an approximate hardness for the different sponges and, if so, which hardness scale it is based on? Also, based on the information you provided, it appears I am the one that needs to call them up to determine which one to purchase :lol: :lol:

Please share your opinions about the performance of the Burst Blue Diamond in comparison to the Thor's Hammer.

Thanks!

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Thanks!
LTT

Paddles
---------
Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei Fextra, Palio HK1997 Gold on FH, Sanwei T88-Taiji on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


Last edited by learninTT on 02 Apr 2019, 04:30, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2019, 03:02 
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fmarek wrote:
All good guys, it is useful info anyway. If Ma Long uses H42 then whoever told me Chinese pro use very hard rubbers up to 50 simply misinformed me or I misunderstood.


There's more than one scale in use. There's the Japanese scale, there's the ESN scale, there's the 729 scale, there's the DHS scale... 42 on the 729 scale would be a medium hard rubber, all those "training sheets" from various manufacturers are usually 42 on the 729 scale. 42 on the DHS scale apparently means very hard - maybe 38 or 39 on the DHS scale is the same as 42 on the 729 scale while 42 would be equivalent to, say, 46. And all of these Chinese rubbers are supposedly harder than even 50 degrees on the ESN scale. It's funny - 729 uses the 729 scale with everything they sell EXCEPT for Battle II - the numbers used for that make me think it's the ESN scale. Either that or it's ROCK HARD. Who knows how any of these scales work, whether they're linear, how one goes about calibrating instruments, etc.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 04 Apr 2019, 02:25 
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TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
[Zeropong] sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness.


Would you mind posting the matrix they sent you?

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 02:47 
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kaesees wrote:
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
[Zeropong] sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness.


Would you mind posting the matrix they sent you?


I tried but the file was too big. Not sure how to get around that


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 02:53 
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learninTT wrote:
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
The blue diamond is the sponge on the "basic" Burst and Big Gun. It's between the Gearz sponge and Thor's Hammer. They sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness. I think Burst is the right choice for you if you want tacky. By far it's my favorite topsheet I've used.


Thank you for the information about the various Gambler sponges and where they sit in relation to each other w.r.t hardness. Could you let me know if the Gambler folks provided an approximate hardness for the different sponges and, if so, which hardness scale it is based on? Also, based on the information you provided, it appears I am the one that needs to call them up to determine which one to purchase :lol: :lol:

Please share your opinions about the performance of the Burst Blue Diamond in comparison to the Thor's Hammer.

Thanks!


So you're right, blue diamond is the softest sponge they offer. It's not pathetically soft, though. Gearz is barely palpably harder than BD. Thor's Hammer is significantly harder than BD and harder than Gearz by a seemingly larger margin than Gearz to BD. I noticed I had less power with BD on balls-out shots but found I got more spin on everything. Consistency was way better as well and I could attack a much larger percentage of serves and pushes effectively. I also had to put in less effort for just about everything. So I guess it's a trade-off whether you want your >90% effort shots to be better or you want your over the table game to be better.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 03:31 
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TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
kaesees wrote:
TheKLeifheit13 wrote:
[Zeropong] sent me a matrix picture of all the rubber/sponge combinations and where they fall as far as speed and tackiness.


Would you mind posting the matrix they sent you?


I tried but the file was too big. Not sure how to get around that


I think this is the matrix TheKLeifheit13 was referring to.

http://gamblertt.com/images/rubberselectorchart2018.jpg

I contacted Zeropong and they were kind enough to share this although I do not see quite a few rubber/sponge combinations in their catalog. Perhaps they are planned in the future.

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Paddles
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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei Fextra, Palio HK1997 Gold on FH, Sanwei T88-Taiji on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 03:36 
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TheKLeifheit13 wrote:

So you're right, blue diamond is the softest sponge they offer. It's not pathetically soft, though. Gearz is barely palpably harder than BD. Thor's Hammer is significantly harder than BD and harder than Gearz by a seemingly larger margin than Gearz to BD. I noticed I had less power with BD on balls-out shots but found I got more spin on everything. Consistency was way better as well and I could attack a much larger percentage of serves and pushes effectively. I also had to put in less effort for just about everything. So I guess it's a trade-off whether you want your >90% effort shots to be better or you want your over the table game to be better.


Thank you for your feedback. I guess that is why they are thinking of discontinuing BD. As I stated previously, from when I spoke to Tom last, he seemed to indicate that GearZ was the replacement for BD. That would make sense if the hardness was similar but the sponge was more "active". But as you noted, if consistency is better with BD, maybe it still has a place in their lineup.

Thanks!
LTT

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Thanks!
LTT

Paddles
---------
Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei Fextra, Palio HK1997 Gold on FH, Sanwei T88-Taiji on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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