OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm going to try hardbat and it seems like Dr. Evil is popular...and I don't have any. What I do have are two old sheets of Gambler Peace Keeper and I'm wondering if anyone who's tried both can compare the two. If PK is similiar to Dr. E I won't waste my time trying to track down the Dr. E. Thanks!

I've not used PeaceKeeper before, but from memory it's a medium pip. Not that that should discourage you, but I don't think it will be very similar to Dr Evil.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Dr Evil is unlike anything else. It's really only made for use with no sponge. Basically, it's been described as a short pips out antispin. It is excellent for flat hitting and I know some good hardbat players that use it. The Peacekeeper is more of a traditional pip. It is a medium pip with minimal grip, very controlled, but I don't see it as being a very good hardbat rubber. In my opinion, it's a solid pip for control and easily returning shots with spin. But if you're looking for hardbat play, Dr Evil would be superior.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

So maybe I should use the PK on BH since I'm used to using LPs there and try more traditional SP for FH?

So I tried PK on a Tibhar CO-S-3 today. Fun and interesting but hard to play. I was getting caught with the revesal effect when trying to hit FH vs topspin and shots whould fly straight. I'm used to playing LP BH and I kept instinctively chop blocking and passive blocking which didn't work too well either. Definitely want to try a grippier SP on the FH.

Be aware that the cos3 is unbelievably slow...

Your FH shots will fly straight if you play your shots like an inverted shot - this is what I meant when I said you need to learn how to play your shots. You need a different technique for your shots - don't try to fix your equipment to somehow allow you to play inverted or spinny sp shots with hardbat, play hardbat shots with a hardbat rubber, and practice until you get the trajectory and shot shape right.

I would recommend using a plain wood 5 ply blade too - just a generic 5 ply wooden blade, not too fast - whatever you can get your hands on.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I agree with LordCope. I am not a good hardbat player because my natural forehand stroke is to spin the ball rather than drive through the ball. It's something I'm working on with my inverted rubber right now. But when it comes to hardbat, work on your flat hitting. Trying to spin the ball too much will only hold you back.
If you're looking for a hardbat rubber with a little more grip, there's a Yasaka rubber on the official hardbat list (http://www.hardbat.com/hbCoverings.html) that might fit the bill, I think it's the A-1.
Your blade will definitely have a large effect on your game as well. I am no expert in this area so I will defer to those with more hardbat experience.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Yes I couldn't recall the name - it has a fabric back too. If you can get hold of that I think it would be a great option.



100% this - when you're playing hardbat, you're feeling and using the blade much much more than when using sponged rubbers. Everything is amplified - if it's rattly or hollow, you will feel it. If the blade is too flexible, it will feel strange when hitting. If the blade is very fast, you will struggle to control the ball. This is why I recommend you get a reliable, decent quality 5 ply allround blade, and get used to being able to play all your shots with this. Once you can hit 50-100 FH to FH, and 50-100 BH to BH, and can reliably serve short and long, you'll be feeling like you can use the bat, and you can experiment with how a slower or faster one feels. However, I think a decent all round blade is probably all you will ever need.

The cos3 is (per the name) a 3 ply blade, and it's very very slow - great for classical defence - with a spinny and thin-ish inverted and a grippy LP (eg Tenergy 05 1.7 and FL3 1.3). But that is a million miles away from a learning to play hardbat blade. Remember that you don't have *any* catapult effect, no tensioned rubbers, no spring sponge - nothing. You get out what you put in, so starting out with one of the slowest blades on the market might be a great plan if you intend to just chop everything, but for allround play, and learning hardbat, I can't personally recommend it.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Having played full-time hardbat for about 10 years with Dr Evil on a Toxic 3 blade (as a close-to-the-table hitter and blocker), I will chime in with my FWIW opinion. My recommendation would be to stick with the COS-3. A soft, slow blade will produce a little more spin with hardbat rubber, and you need that spin to bring the ball down when driving (as opposed to flat hitting against backspin). Both Yasaka A-1-2 and Butterfly Orthodox will produce more spin than Dr Evil, but I found both to be more "mushy" than Dr Evil when hitting, and I did not like either one. As others here have said, keep working on the stroke for driving and hitting. It will take time, but it is a great feeling to drive a hit a ball past an opponent!

Thanks all for the advice. Maybe I should clarify that I don't care about the approved HB list of rubbers so any OX SP is ok. I don't plan on entering sanctioned HB tourneys. I usually play with LP OX on BH so I may continue with that, but I thought if I'm going to try SP OX FH I might as well try the whole HB thing and give SP OX BH a try too.

My goal is to reduce my set-up weight by removing sponge rubber FH. I prefer ridiculously light weight. The rackets I use are mostly balsa between 55-65g. My current set-up with sponge FH weighs 120g total...and I'm trying to reduce that. Probably unheard of right, but my arm is messed up and like a noodle.

The CO-S-3 with 2 sheets of PK was 127g, so more than my normal set-up. Those PK sheets are thick and heavy compared to LP OX. The CO-S-3 was good for me as I'm used to slow. I also have a Toxic 3 (65g) and that is even slower than the CO-S-3.

Dr. Evil seems hard to acquire but I can easily find the Butterfly and Yasaka HB pips in my area. I own other SPs but all have sponge so I may try the remove the top sheets and try those: Spectol, Spin Pips, Leopard, Beautry.

Question: Is the HB FH stroke basically the same for all OX SP? Or would it be different for like a SpinPips topsheet vs the approved HB rubbers, like Bty/Yasaka OX? (When I watch HB matches online a lot of these guys look like they're using inverted strokes)