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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 11:21 
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have a look at how Greg Letts twiddles, against a very good attacker - very decisive, at the right moment, doesnt't overuse it, and when he does it, you know you're in trouble!



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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 16:40 
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vanjr wrote:
leatherback wrote:
#1 thing to think about while twiddling...

...what the heck are you gonna do if they see you twiddle and change direction to your forehand....


1+!!!

The video that Def Attack posted shows A LOT more twiddling that I would ever do or want to do.


It allways gets very sepcial when two lp-players face each other, not very representative :)

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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 16:44 
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leatherback wrote:
#1 thing to think about while twiddling...

...what the heck are you gonna do if they see you twiddle and change direction to your forehand....


Twiddle under the table :D :D :D
Seriously, I have never noticed that anyone is so fast he can cange direction of his stroke when he notice the other one is twiddeling. Look at Filus matches, I don't think that will be a great problem. But you will allways have situations when you should not have twiddled. You need to be able to perform at basic drive and a basic push/chop with LP on FH. Then you will feel more safe and have more conficence, you will dare to twiddle more often.

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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 16:46 
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PRW wrote:
have a look at how Greg Letts twiddles, against a very good attacker - very decisive, at the right moment, doesnt't overuse it, and when he does it, you know you're in trouble!


Thanks! And a very good point there! You know you're in trouble. That's how it should be. Only twiddle for attack if you are in for a killer?
On the other hand it can be very good to twiddle right after a FH attack to keep the tempo up, to keep preassure on your opponent if you manage to move him away from the table.

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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 21:43 
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Def-attack wrote:
PRW wrote:
have a look at how Greg Letts twiddles, against a very good attacker - very decisive, at the right moment, doesnt't overuse it, and when he does it, you know you're in trouble!


Thanks! And a very good point there! You know you're in trouble. That's how it should be. Only twiddle for attack if you are in for a killer?
On the other hand it can be very good to twiddle right after a FH attack to keep the tempo up, to keep preassure on your opponent if you manage to move him away from the table.


I had not considered a twiddle after a FH attack. I will try that.

Last night I was adjusting to some new rubber on my FH and having issues, but I found that when I twiddled to attack with inverted on my BH that my first shot was very effective and consistent. However if they got that ball back my next shot-no matter where it went-was very poor and often led to an unforced error and loss of point. I am not sure if it was that I was so focused on the twiddle and shot or if I should have just reset the point and not stayed on the attack side but gone back to defense?!?

Def attack, have you thought up any more drills for twiddling?


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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2013, 22:55 
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vanjr wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
PRW wrote:
have a look at how Greg Letts twiddles, against a very good attacker - very decisive, at the right moment, doesnt't overuse it, and when he does it, you know you're in trouble!


Thanks! And a very good point there! You know you're in trouble. That's how it should be. Only twiddle for attack if you are in for a killer?
On the other hand it can be very good to twiddle right after a FH attack to keep the tempo up, to keep preassure on your opponent if you manage to move him away from the table.


I had not considered a twiddle after a FH attack. I will try that.

Last night I was adjusting to some new rubber on my FH and having issues, but I found that when I twiddled to attack with inverted on my BH that my first shot was very effective and consistent. However if they got that ball back my next shot-no matter where it went-was very poor and often led to an unforced error and loss of point. I am not sure if it was that I was so focused on the twiddle and shot or if I should have just reset the point and not stayed on the attack side but gone back to defense?!?

Def attack, have you thought up any more drills for twiddling?


No more drills yet, but perhpas I am well enough for a light session tonight, then will I try a few.But for you I recommend tha classic Falkenberger (BH to BH block, FH from BH-side to BH block, FH from FH side to BH block and so on) but with inverted all the time. A very good way to fasten up your twiddeling and program your spine to always twiddle back after a BH with inverted.

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 00:41 
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vanjr wrote:
...but I found that when I twiddled to attack with inverted on my BH that my first shot was very effective and consistent. However if they got that ball back my next shot-no matter where it went-was very poor and often led to an unforced error and loss of point. I am not sure if it was that I was so focused on the twiddle and shot or if I should have just reset the point and not stayed on the attack side but gone back to defense?!?


That was exactly my point (and I think it also comes down to what leatherback said). When the ball gets back after a twiddled BH inverted attack, you will likely be inconsistent, esp. when the ball fastly returns at your FH side. You can either twiddle again towards executing a FH attack, or you can take the ball at FH-side with the pips. In the first possibility you will be less consistent because you won't be quick enough. And the second possibility will give you a difficult ball to return with pips at the FH side and besides, it will be an easy one for the opponent to attack.

Of course it will all depend on your twiddle skills, but generally, it will make the defensive game more complex than it already is :lol: . Maybe for your opponent, but certainly for yourself too. My choice is to focus on improving BH pimple-attack. The only time I consider twiddling is when pushing against pushing.

But keep us informed, I'm curious about how it progresses :up:

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 03:05 
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Defence+Attack+Twittle-Confusion+contempt-consistancy+New Ball+Time+E=Mc2
will get you...somewhere, maybe???
I do understand getting backed into a wall and not going forward. That goes even more so with most LP users. SOmething is lacking if your progress stops and does not progress forward. It could be the players you play know your style and are used to playing you. Your not playing the right people in general. or your not taking the amount of time needed to improve your Core Game. My FH used to me ...really good. I could hit a ton and Loop with pretty good power. But as you get a little older (62) you have to make some adjustments before you blow your arm out, our it just rips off while looping.( dam whered my arm go???)
Balance in a players game (IMHO) is when that player can practice his core game off service and senerios that controlls his type of attack or defend. making adjustments during a game set and controlling the tactics instead of being controlled. ALot of really good players can have an over powering loop off a great service set, or an ok loop off an average service set.
being consistant and technically correct is KEY. case in point. I was not aggressive with my BH and just pushed to anywhere and was afraind to attack. I also stopped using my FH and moving as I should. Should I twiddle so I dont have to move....NO I always tell my self if I miss a shot or if I am out of position___ *move your fat *ss>
Balance is what it is_ depending on if your a twiddle or not---dont get lazy. I always say use the 80-20 rule. train on the 80% of my shots the most and use the 80% most of the time. Do a shot count when you play three types of players- Loopers-hitters-no-spinners.
what shot earns the most points off each. do the math- and train it. Defense against a 1900 player or less might get you somewhere, but it better be good.

watch this guy---that my type of game I am trying to look at as a model-
Robert Shahnazari.
I like his game and I also watched alot of other vids to check-out how to improve my service which is what I plan to do after states.

Peace GIG
*back to work
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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 06:39 
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Just a quick reflection after today's session. Correct balance is a key factor when executing a BH adtr twiddeling. I tend to be on the move away from the table at those times, need to change that vehen I decide to ttwiddle I need to stay at the table.
Another thing: I decide to twiddle at the same time I execute my shot. This means if I push with no spin it is at that point I decide that I am going to twiddle before the next shot. I don't decide that when I see what kind of shot my opponent is making. Good or bad? Don't know yet but I've noticed that this is very common even amongst pro's.
I filmed a drill, will post it later, now sleep...

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 06:45 
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@Bob: thanks for those reflections. I come from having sn offensive BH. I still have that even with lp. Look at my gsme in the first post, I use my lp for slow drives s lot. If I could twiddle at those moment I would win more points I think, but I still need to pick the right moments to twiddle - that is the tricky part and the main reason for this blog.

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 07:53 
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Sometimes for fun I will block down the line and have my partner loop cross court using only the inverted side.

Or Vice versa with me doing a half speed loop.

That's just for twiddling practice.

As far as twiddling in a game I think having set combos at first is the key.
Ie. backhand loop off serve twiddle back to a. Attack with forehand b. attack with long pips if close or c. Heavy chop with bh long pips if your opponent is not good against chop.. For my level they push my chop back a lot to the bh so I'm ready to attack.

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 18:06 
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Def-attack wrote:
Just a quick reflection after today's session. Correct balance is a key factor when executing a BH adtr twiddeling. I tend to be on the move away from the table at those times, need to change that vehen I decide to ttwiddle I need to stay at the table.
Another thing: I decide to twiddle at the same time I execute my shot. This means if I push with no spin it is at that point I decide that I am going to twiddle before the next shot. I don't decide that when I see what kind of shot my opponent is making. Good or bad? Don't know yet but I've noticed that this is very common even amongst pro's.
I filmed a drill, will post it later, now sleep...


A lo-fi film from yesterday's session:


I was not in best shape (had the flu/a cold earlier this week), and missed some points I should have gotten. Mostly due to lack of balance and timing. I made a drill where my opponent served short with a little back spin (he uses 563-1 on BH) and I pushed back with pips or inverted. He pushed back and I attacked or pushed again. When I made a push that I thought would lead to a high return I prepared for attack.
Another drill is to Practice chops vs loop, and have your opponnent to push back. You can push that back with inverted or, if it is a littel high, try to attack with inverted on BH. We also had a drill where I served long to his FH, he looped and I blocked with inverted or attacked with inverted. If I made lots of back spin in serve I stepped back and chopped his loop.

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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2013, 22:25 
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Teddy is correct, I have worked with Teddy at our club and watched him beat a former stated champion by flipping. He flipped off service and during play. I now flip off backspin serves and sometimes during play. I will do it when they serve non-spin balls as well,
yes agreed, timing is everything. Look up Richard Hicks. hes a twiddle guy that plays with LP as well. Older but still one smart cookie.

Peace GOtta get back to work.

Teddy and I want to play doubles in the states. that should be fun.

Peace Again GIG
:rock: :Chop: :party:

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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 03:16 
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Def-attack wrote:
Just a quick reflection after today's session. Correct balance is a key factor when executing a BH adtr twiddeling. I tend to be on the move away from the table at those times, need to change that vehen I decide to ttwiddle I need to stay at the table.
Another thing: I decide to twiddle at the same time I execute my shot. This means if I push with no spin it is at that point I decide that I am going to twiddle before the next shot. I don't decide that when I see what kind of shot my opponent is making. Good or bad? Don't know yet but I've noticed that this is very common even amongst pro's.
I filmed a drill, will post it later, now sleep...



i would say that this is bad...

if your opponent is watching your racket (which when playing a defender i would do 100% of the time) and you twiddle before i have touched the ball...

I would FOR SURE avoid your backhand.....

i would say you should decide after your opponent has touched the ball...then you know placement speed and spin before you commit...


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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 04:04 
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leatherback wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
Just a quick reflection after today's session. Correct balance is a key factor when executing a BH adtr twiddeling. I tend to be on the move away from the table at those times, need to change that vehen I decide to ttwiddle I need to stay at the table.
Another thing: I decide to twiddle at the same time I execute my shot. This means if I push with no spin it is at that point I decide that I am going to twiddle before the next shot. I don't decide that when I see what kind of shot my opponent is making. Good or bad? Don't know yet but I've noticed that this is very common even amongst pro's.
I filmed a drill, will post it later, now sleep...



i would say that this is bad...

if your opponent is watching your racket (which when playing a defender i would do 100% of the time) and you twiddle before i have touched the ball...

I would FOR SURE avoid your backhand.....

i would say you should decide after your opponent has touched the ball...then you know placement speed and spin before you commit...

Yes, I agree, this would be ideal... But I have a mile to walk before I reach that. I will try to wait a second before I twiddle in drills, to ser if that can help.
Leatherback, do you twiddle? Did you do it more when you used lp ox? At what situations?

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