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PostPosted: 13 Feb 2013, 06:52 
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roundrobin wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
It happes often that I attack with FH and get a return to my BH, and have to make a lame chop. I am not sure this is a good time to twiddle, perhaps better to try to get in position and make a better chop. But I will try to make a drill for this to test. And the "classic example" from above is something I have already mentioned. I need to fix this, it happens a lot when I meed player that is not from my club. I'll see what I can do...


If you don't mind I would like to give you a little tip: Twiddling is add firepower to your game, never for defensive purposes. This means you'd want to assume the ball will come back to your BH after your FH loop, and you want to attack it from the BH side as strongly as your FH. As we are not young anymore, it's much faster to twiddle and attack hard from our BH than to move our feet like Xu Xin to use our FH. So the key thing is BE DETERMINED when you twiddle. Make up your mind that you want to hit the next ball with a BH loop by twiddling. If the ball comes to the "wrong" side, do not fret. Simply chop-block it back calmly with LP on your FH side. You should practice BH looping and punching combined with FH chop-blocking close to the table as often as you can until you get very comfortable with the sequence. You can also simply "guide" the ball back with LP on your FH instead of chop-blocking. Once you can do that your opponents will be thinking twice before returning your FH attacks to your BH side. :)

Thanks. I don'tmind at all. Good advice, to be determined. I try but when I play matches I disconnect my mind and use only instincts. It takes time to reprogrsm instincts, like when I started to chop with BH (ehen I started to use LP).
As seen in the beginning in the second vid in my post above, I really need to practice with lp on FH :oops:

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013, 22:01 
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Had another session yesterday. I had a very good flow, too bad I only had one opponent to smasg :D . We did not do any real drills, just warmed up for 30 min and then we played 6 sets. I placed them all, except for the frst, in the film below. I won the first 4 easily (my opponent was not in best shape this evening, but he is 65 years old, so he was excused ;) ). The last two sets I started to try to force myself to twiddle as often as I could. It slowed down my game a little. Since he uses MP on BH and is a lefty he often makes short drop shots on mychops, and those are often carries a little topspin. Excelent for looping back with inverted on FH :devil: . But he can also make really nasty blocks with his BH, really difficult to handle...

I also managed to nail a nice BH attack with inverted (last point in the fifth I think).I lost the last set we played (lost focus and got caught in mid distance). The best last night was my footwork and my FH attacks. And most of the times I remembered to twiddle something good came out of it (if I remeber correctly). But I really need to keep myself aware of the possibility to twiddle all the time, otherwise I completly forget about it.



I'll have a closer look at the film later, to see where I should have twiddled but didn't. And where I should not have twiddled.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 01:31 
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Damn!!! Every time I watch Wang Yang play I want to try short pips again. He beat Wang Xi:
http://tv.ttbl.de/ttc-wang-17-02-2013-r ... ckenhausen (look at 22:03 when Wang Yang changed playing hand to left :) )
And Wang Xi is very good against defence, he nearly won against Joo Se Hyuk a few years ago and like a year ago he just pulverized Ruwen Filus. But he seemed to have no idea if Wang Yang gave him back spin or no spin on pushes and shops.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 03:41 
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Pattantyus twiddles a little like Chen W, mostly for returning serves with FH. But he also twiddles for a few nasty BH attacks. Have a look at 4:26 and 5:05 in this film - excelent attacks:


But I think that what he did best in that match was stepping around and attacking with FH. He did that a lot and had some great counterattacks from distance as well.
He also twiddled at the wrong moment at least once, but handled it with a close to the table chop block with FH :o . Have a look at 6:15.

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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 03:46 
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I am always amazed at how little the very top players twiddle-except for serving.

Thanx for the videos.


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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 05:15 
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vanjr wrote:
I am always amazed at how little the very top players twiddle-except for serving.

Thanx for the videos.


Yes, you're right. I think Filus is the one that twiddles most for attacking with BH, but I also think he is doing it more and more rarely nowadays.

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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 17:23 
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I had a session last night, first in a week (much at work now). I did a drill I've done before to practice twiddeling (except for Falkenberger that I usually does but more to get my feet going and to speed up my twiddeling). I served BH short, my opponent pushed to my BH and I pushes back, either with inverted or pips. When I thought I would get a higher return (when I pushed without spin with lp, more like lifting) I prepared for BH attack. One thing I relized was that I often is slightly on the move away from the table (no kidding, I'm a defender, huh :) ). To do a proper BH attacking stroke with inverted I need to stand still, leaning forward and perhaps add a little forward motion. If I try my BH drive/smash with inverted while having the weight on my heels I will hit the ceiling, of course. Also difficult was to time the stroke, since I am used to wait for the ball to sink, so that I can chop it. Now I need to move forward to the ball to hit it at highest point. But these two aspects were difficult to change and when I changed it, it messed up my game a little. I had an inner conflict :geek: weather or not to move asay from the table at certain points.

Conclusion: I need to create some kind of framework, rough rules for when to twiddle and when not to.

When I do a fast lp serve bh to bh I usually get a high return to my body. That is a great opportunity for twiddeling. I'll see if I can work out some more "rules of twiddeling".

But my team have a very important match comming up on Sunday. We really need to win this one, so for now I rest from twiddeling a little and focus on my game as a whole. I will probably have to face this dude again (hopefully I will be in better shape than last time when I had a cold):


I need to return his serves a little better, keep the ball low and slow to his body (he holds his bat with a special grip, almost at the end of the handle, and therefore have some troubles with balls aimed to his body, but he also has a good foot work). I usaually serves short no spin or little back spin. Difficult to do anything with the pips agasint those serves, I think I need to twiddle agaisnt those. Also I need to be on my toes, moving fast to defend against his loops and smashes from both wings. And I need to attack very good, not to fast attacks, but loaded with spin and placed to his body. He is a very good blocker against fast attacks to the corners...

Any more suggestions?
Here he beat another teammate of mine who plays defence wth 755 ox and Yasaka Pryde 30 on a Stiga Allround (as you can see he has no troubles handeling Amir's BH strokes with lp - neither pushes, chops or attacks):

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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 19:02 
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From yesterday's session (I nearly beat my fellow defender, 11-9 in last of three sets):

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 07:52 
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Unfortunately I never got to play our most important match this season. My son broke his arm 2 hrs before match start :(
But our trainer an captain for our best team was able to step in, even though he was not all well from his cold. And they managed to win! And it is still up to ourselves to stay in this leauge. Next match in a week, against the leagues best team. Fun but difficult match :)

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2013, 07:19 
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Have a look at the last set in this match:
http://youtu.be/KrJWjvDITPk
Muramatsu can't trick Franziska with his spin, he can't defend good enough against his attack. So Yuto starts attacking with bh himself (@ 4:13), more than I have seen him do in any match before. And he twiddles and attacks, and then twiddle back and continues attacking (@ 4:50). He also twiddle immediately after serving (I think he decided to twiddle before he served) @ 4:58.
I find a little strabge that he twiddles for his attacks with bh though. Most sp defenders doesn't. But his sp is very slow...

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2013, 14:03 
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I don't find it odd at all. The short pips doesn't loop as strong or well. Short pips are good at hitting which requires timing before or at the top of the bounce. Inverted allows him to loop. Looping can come from any timing. On the way up, at the top of the bounce or on the way down.

Also chopping with short pips and inverted aren't that different. He chopped with both from his backhand side so I'm assuming it just adds to the variation he can create.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2013, 16:26 
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tabesamis wrote:

Also chopping with short pips and inverted aren't that different. He chopped with both from his backhand side so I'm assuming it just adds to the variation he can create.


He did? I missed that. Will look again...

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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013, 08:06 
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Training again. Not much focus on twiddeling, more on keeping the match game alive. But I did develop a new serve that I will use. It is a more extreme version of a tomahawk. I have two different tomahawks. One with mostly vack spin where I lean to right an hit the ball almost beside my body. The other is morme like how Kenta Matsiduaira does it, more in front of the body. I developed this one a little, adding more speed an spin. I am standin mid table but left foot closer to the table. This is bacause my knee started to hurting after 20 serves like Kenta (bending the knees parallell to each other). Also, with this new position I could add more speed and spin. I also activated my wrist at ball contact more than before, trying to make more spin.
My opponents had lots of problems returning the serve. When they managed to place the return on my side of the table I mostly just killed it in third ball attack. Great fun!!! But not for my opponents. Next time I will film it :)

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013, 07:06 
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I have nor been playing good this year. I have lost three matches to people that I won against in october-november. Twoo days ago my team played a match and I lost to a person who I beat in a close game last time. I tried to twiddle when returning serves but it dit not work well - I missed the ball several of those times.
What bothers me the most is that I hesitate what game to play, when to attack, when to defend.

I need to find the right balance between defence and attack!!!

I have been playing a little too aggressive I think, especially when my opponent is serving. I wanted this, but now I see it probably was not the right way. If I should attack I should twiddle. This has made me not to trust my defensive skills. I don't feel all comfortable away from the table and not close to the table either.

I just watched the final of Hungarian champs where Pattantyus won. He was down 3-7 in the deciding set. He never lost faith. One set before he seemed to decide to play more defence, only occasional attacks. Even when he was down 3-7 he did not change his strategy. And it payed off, hiss opponent started to loose focus and missed a few shots, Pattantyus got a little lucky with the net, and it was even again. And Pattantyus just continued to play safe and won 11-7.

I need to find my comfort zone, find confidence in my defence and then, explore more offensive strategies. I will still work hard on twiddeling, I reallly need that. But for now I need it more for pushes than for attacks. Also for returning serves.

About twiddeling... Watch Fabian Åkerström totally demolish Jens Lundqvist with BH-smashes in the last part of their final in Swedish Champs. Fabian is very good at twiddeling, and I am so happy for him he got to win this final and become the Swedish Champion :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013, 06:59 
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I laying a litlte low when it comes to twiddeling for the moment. I have more serious problems with my game for the moment, more about that in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22316&p=242990#p242990
When I settle down again I will continue with my "twiddeling project".

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