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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2013, 16:46 
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Finally, I have settled for a new LP to get me back on track and find balance between defence and attack. I will go with my long time friend Dawei 388D but with the slow dampening sponge Grass20. This means I will start practicing on twiddeling again.
I had a little session yestarday and it might have been good for me not focusing on twiddeling :) . I played a few matches. Did not play very well, but I did som good twiddeleings. I mostly twiddled when I had to push but I also attacked with inverted BH a few times.
I played a match against a classic defender who normally beats me, but I do win on occasion. He also uses Dawei 388D but with a soft yellow sponge, a little faster than mine. But he uses Defence II wich is at least equal, perhaps more, slower than my Joo Se Hyuk. Anyway, this time I manage to beat hin two straight games, mostly due to a new strategy from my side. I had decided to serve long no spin or slight back spin to his pips. I do this a lot but most of the time I try to step around and use my FH attack. This works sometimes but most of the times he places the LP push to my body and I am not quick enough. If I manage to step around and attack he nomrally twiddles and block with BH straight down the line. If I loop more to his FH-side it usually works better, but that is also risky.
This time I twiddled instead, and looped/drived to his body or to his FH. That worked much better :) . I had a lead 10-1... But I almost lost it, won 11-9 :oops: . Next set he took the command and I did not twiddle as much, but I used my new pips a little better. He is used to my grippy P-4 and Dawei 388D has a lotmore spin continuation (spin reversal) and that tricked him a few times. I played more aggressive in the end, using my FH-loop to his far FH and far BH. He was in the lead 4-0 before I got started. At 9-9 I used my tomahawk serve with slight top spin and won the first point. Next one I used the tomahawk again but with my pips. He lifted it back with his pips and I could loop to his FH and he chopped it long. First time I beat hit in two straight I think. I won because of my new strategy against him, that got him off balance and I could capitalize on that in the second set.
The other matces was not as good, I lost but still twiddled and blocked or attacked a few times. I did not do many misstakes from twiddeling, that feels very good.
Balance feels better now, I just need to play a lot more with these pips, I need to leqarn when it is slow and how slow, I need to practice my chopping with it, when it genereates spin and when it doesn't.
Back on track :rock: :rock: :rock: !

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2013, 21:28 
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Look forward to more posts and how you go forward with this. Keep them coming.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2013, 22:57 
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I had the impression, that starting to twiddle more, at first weakend my attacking power a lot. The reasen for this is, that instead of stepping around and playing the FH loop (which is one of my best strokes), I tried to play a BH top spin, which is rather weak.

So in my oppinion, twiddling to the inverted BH is only useful in a low number of situations. Another drawback of it is, that this adds another decision to the already complex mondern defensive game: whether to twiddle or not. That is why, I will continue to twiddle in practice, but in matches I only see two reasonable inverted BH strokes for me:

1. killing high balls to the BH
2. push back pushes after own chopping

Receiving services maybe the third option, but still I favor stepping around to use the FH much more.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013, 00:36 
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Coxeroni wrote:
I had the impression, that starting to twiddle more, at first weakend my attacking power a lot. The reasen for this is, that instead of stepping around and playing the FH loop (which is one of my best strokes), I tried to play a BH top spin, which is rather weak.

So in my oppinion, twiddling to the inverted BH is only useful in a low number of situations. Another drawback of it is, that this adds another decision to the already complex mondern defensive game: whether to twiddle or not. That is why, I will continue to twiddle in practice, but in matches I only see two reasonable inverted BH strokes for me:

1. killing high balls to the BH
2. push back pushes after own chopping

Receiving services maybe the third option, but still I favor stepping around to use the FH much more.


I agree with you there. Also, after a BH attack with inverted you often need to follow up with a FH attack. That can be tricky. My practice in the art of twiddeling is for now focused on special occasions, well prepared patterns. Like when I serve BH long to BH with my pips, and then be prepared for a high ball to kill with BH inverted. Or when I push a few times with inverted or pips from BH to BH and expect a higher return (when I try to trick my opponent with spin).

But there is another effective situation to twiddle. If an opponent is looping very careful to your BH, and if you notice this in time, you can approach the table and block with inverted down the line. I've even seen Joo twidle in such situations :)

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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013, 02:12 
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I had a hit agasint the robot today. I tried a few drills to get myself used to chop agasint fast loops with Dawei 388D Grass20. And I also tried a few drills for twiddeling. Both were good, highly recommended for a robot session. If you have a real opponent there are better drills :)

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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013, 06:19 
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Which robot is that? The Newgy I use doesn't have realistic topspin at all; it's nowhere near as spinny as a good human opponent.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013, 15:13 
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dunc wrote:
Which robot is that? The Newgy I use doesn't have realistic topspin at all; it's nowhere near as spinny as a good human opponent.


I believe it is Newgy 1050. Makes ok spin but spin comes only with speed. This robot cannot produce slow and spinny balls. Other robots can that however. But I like this because you can place it where you want, and at what height you want. That makes more realistic flight paths for different drills. But I don't use the robot that much, about 5 times a year or so.
BTW I used it at speed 26 of 30 I think.

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2013, 01:09 
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Just got a few new rubbers from Eacheng. I ordered two new sheets ov Dawei 388D Grass20, since I have glued my current one three times, and it grows bigger (and therefore thinner) every time. I think a new one will be a little softer and that is welcome. I was thinking of putting a very thin sponge (0,4 mm) under the sheet, but that is not leagal...

I also ordered one sheet of Glovbe 979 ox, Duoble Fish 1615 ox and SP Globe 889-2 ox (the same top sheet as Wang Yang uses). I wil try the two Globe versions on my spare blade. I will glue them on top of my Grass20 sponge, since my current sheet has the top sheet very poor attachet to the sponge. So I will move the sheet to my spare blade and then remove the top sheet and attach Globe 979 on that slow sponge... Could be interesting :) And that SP as Wang Yang uses, looks like Super Spin Pips but more conical pips. I might have a sheet of 802 that I can try as well. Just for fun 8) .

The two new sheets of Dawei 388D Grass20 differed a bit. One looked shiny and nicely attached and the sponge was thick. The other one looked almost used and it looked as it was not very good attached to the sponge, and the sponge looked thin. So glad I ordered two sheets...

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2013, 01:14 
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Def-attack wrote:
Just got a few new rubbers from Eacheng. I ordered two new sheets ov Dawei 388D Grass20, since I have glued my current one three times, and it grows bigger (and therefore thinner) every time. I think a new one will be a little softer and that is welcome. I was thinking of putting a very thin sponge (0,4 mm) under the sheet, but that is not leagal...

I also ordered one sheet of Glovbe 979 ox, Duoble Fish 1615 ox and SP Globe 889-2 ox (the same top sheet as Wang Yang uses). I wil try the two Globe versions on my spare blade. I will glue them on top of my Grass20 sponge, since my current sheet has the top sheet very poor attachet to the sponge. So I will move the sheet to my spare blade and then remove the top sheet and attach Globe 979 on that slow sponge... Could be interesting :) And that SP as Wang Yang uses, looks like Super Spin Pips but more conical pips. I might have a sheet of 802 that I can try as well. Just for fun 8) .

The two new sheets of Dawei 388D Grass20 differed a bit. One looked shiny and nicely attached and the sponge was thick. The other one looked almost used and it looked as it was not very good attached to the sponge, and the sponge looked thin. So glad I ordered two sheets...


The quality control of chinese rubber is "amazing"...


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013, 05:25 
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Globe 979 on the slow Grass 20 sponge was... slow. But nothing else. Got more back spin from chops with Dawei 388D. Perhaps a little more bite on pushes with Globe.
Next week (or a little later) I will try Wang Yang's SP Globe 889-2 on that slow sponge :devil:

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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2013, 01:14 
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Yesterday I played (and arranged) my club's internal champs. Usually I do not play very well in this competition since I spend a lit of time organising it. But this time I played kind of OK, at least not worse than at practice. The pips on my new sheet are still a little stiff (only one session before yesterday's matches) and I had problems against my forst opponent who uses SP 802 on BH. He usually has problems against defenders and we always plays close games (I win 50%). This time he was a little more focused than me, and against his SP attacks and SP-serves I would have played better with the grippy P-4. He won 3-1, but at 4:57 I did a nice twiddle for a BH attack 8) .


Next match I played a slowlooper who puts a lot of spin on his loops against me. We have played a lot of sets against each other the last 6 months and Lately he has won like 3 of 5 or something. This match I started very bad. I needed two sets to realize I neded to stay close to the table when he served and when he attacked the first time. I won third and I had set point in fourth but I just wasn't focused enough. He won 3-1.


After these two matches I played another two, first very easily won, second not that easy (but it should have been very easy).
Then I faced my most common training partner. We usually face each other at this internal competition (once a year) and I usually win a close game. This time I won 3-1, but he has not been practicing that much lately, especially not with me. So he was not used to my LP the way he usually is. That got me a few easy points.


Anyway, I feel more and more convinced that this LP is right for me where I am right now. It feels god and I enjoy my game very much :) . In two weeks there is a big competition coming up, that will be great fun!

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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2013, 07:54 
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My work's Internet proxy keeps blocking loads of OOAK posts. Really hope I can access this one tomorrow as I want to watch those videos and my home Internet is out of action for a week.

Doh!!

Thanks for posting though DA, I'll get round to them as soon as possible!

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 08 May 2013, 01:01 
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This season has reaches the end for me. I entered the last tournament this weekend and now there will only be training until late September I think. Well, I have a few things to improve this summer: twiddeling for attacks, executing lower shots with my lp, especially over the table, keeping serves low and improving power on FH loops. These are technical things. But there are tactical things to improve as well, like placement and movement. I also need to work on my footwork, especially away from the table.

These areas of improvement is something I got to think of after the competition last Sunday. I warmed up at 8 in the morning, played my first match at 9 and missed my last shot at 19:00. The day after (yesterday) I felt like I was 150 years old :whew:.

Anyway, most matches went ok, but I lost the last one 11-13 in fifth (of fifth). Otherwise I would have made it to semi final in that class (that started after lunch time), but it was late and I had played like 8-9 matches already that day. But my ranking would have improved more if I would have won that last one. Here is a match from the my last group match (I won all three easily). I played good and he played just the way I wanted :) :


In the first class, that I entered in the morning, where there were players mostly better than me (higher ranked). I won 2 of 3 matches in my group. Then I had to face a girl who had beaten my training partner in his goup. She had MP (Dr Neubauer Diamant) on BH and something smooth on FH (I forgot to check). She had a very good FH smash and she used almost every time I looped to her FH, or every time I gave her a low spin shot, a little higher than the net ;( . And like many girls she played with almost no spin. That, and me not playing good or tactical, was the reason I lost. I should have kept serves and lp strokes much lower, and I should have been more focused on what spin she gave me... And I should not have underestimated her :oops:. Here is that match:

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PostPosted: 25 May 2013, 03:03 
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I am in the middle of my silly season when I try new rubbers. For the moment I am trying Palio Thor's on FH instead of my DHS Neo TG Skyline 3, and it works ok. A little higher throw (kind of like Neo H3) and faster on high impact. Sponge is harder than TG3 but top sheet is softer. It is better than TG3 for blockeng, puhing and serving but not as easy for fishing.
I have also changed top sheet on my LP side, from Dawei 388D to Tibhar Grass D.TecS. I have played with DTecS before, bort 1,2 mm and 1,6 mm but they were too fast for me, especially in the game over the table. With the sponge I use now (the white dampening sponge beneath Dawei 388D Grass 20) it is much slower and more controllable. Less leathal chops but still very dangerous over the table.Not as contollable as Dawei 388D grass20 and perhaps not as good chops as with that, but DTecS is so much more fun over tha tale and pips are softer. That gives me a little better feeling when chopping. Oushes over the table will be very good when I find the right angle. For the moment there are a lot of pop ups when I play.

Here is a video from yesterdays last set, against my fellow defender. I still have some problems with FH side and my new rubber. With the higher throw and me trying to compensate for it, I miss the ball sometimes and sometimes close the bat too much. Also I did some disasterous shots with my lp side :oops: . But this will get bette I know. This was my first session with this setup on my preferred blade. Also, the lp was not properly attached to the sponge, especially not where I have my index finger. Anyway, here is the film (problably the longest set I have played since 11-point era started):

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2013, 05:28 
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Still working on my new set up. I am having some problems with the higher throw of Palio Thor's (compared to DHS Neo Skyline TG3). But it has tremendous control and once I learn when it is fast and when it is slow I Think it will be very good for me. It is not as sensitive to incomming spin as TG3, at least not on slow balls or when fishing. But when I engage the sponge it is fast and has a high throw. And in the middle, at medium impact, it is a Little unpredictable.
When I push with Thors I get much more back spin than with TG3, also when I brush loop. Serving is about the same I think. Blocking is very good and the soft top sheet takes the speed off the ball very effectively. But I do have some problems using it on my BH for some reason. I guess I am not determined enough when I use it on BH. A little hesitation makes the ball go high.
On my LP side it feels very god with D.TecS on a dampening sponge. Only problem is to get the top sheet to stay on the sponge :?: . I still need to change a few strokes that has been adapted to a grippy LP. For exampel, it is very difficult to block like with inverted when using D.TecS. The ball goes long almost every time. On the other hand, I can chop block very good with it, even on fast loops (not full force loops). That means I need to move the bat every single time I use the pips, no passive blocking. It also means I can chop or chop block very close to the table and still feel like I am in control.
When chopping from distance D.Tecs returns a huge back spin, even at first chop. But the spin does not increase much at 2nd or 3rd chops, which can be kind of deceptive ;)
About twiddeling, I need to get back on that track now. Having changed to D.Tecs I really need to twiddle to attack, since it is really difficult to block or attack with that pip.

I had a few matches last session. First against a man who I have played a lot last 9 months or so, who uses 563-1 1,5 mm on BH and smoth on FH. This match he blocked really good with his MP. Normally I can loop with more spin than he can handle. Another thing that made mo loos this match was problems with FH, due to transition problems from TG3. But mostly it was because I generated much more back spin on chops than I am used to. This causes lots of problems for me, because he usually loops once and then maks a drop shot with his MP. I usually approaches the table, twiddle and attack (or loops with FH if he places the ball on that side). But in this match I missed all those shots, because there was so much to spin from his drop shot (because of my back spin) or because I wasn't determined enough with my Thor's.



I was very angry after this match :@ , I did not like my game at all. I faced my most common match opponent after this and I played much better. He had some serious problems dealing with the back spin from D.Tecs but also with the spin from my Thor's :devil:



It was a very warm day and about 30 degrees C in the venue. That may have caused some of the problems I had with the Thor's.

Now I am off on holiday for a week or two. Paus from TT. Then I start to work on twiddeling again, since I am satisfyed with my setup for now :) .

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