OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Also happy to report that the Dignics 09C feels incredible on the JSH blade. It simply doesn't work on my Innershield though - bad blade/rubber combination, clearly.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I played in the league on Monday... having only had that 1h30m coaching session using LPs since using the SPs for a few weeks.

It was very, very ugly I managed to win two matches, and had 5 match points in the third match - which I eventually lost. I was really tense, footwork was awful, made a lot of mistakes off serve and felt really uncomfortable and nervous with the LPs.

Couple of things I need to work on there:

1. One of my opponents exclusively targeted my forehand, and all I was really capable of doing was blocking the ball back. I worked on this in my last coaching session, but I need to keep going, because this will become a real weakness otherwise
2. One of my opponents exclusively targeted my deep backhand, and I didn't feel confident doing anything about it. I tried to force points with my FH and made a lot of mistakes. In the past I would've been more patient, more confident with the LPs, more confident to twiddle and attack etc. I guess this will come back with time

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Yeah I think that's totally normal since you genuinely put some time and effort into the SPs. I'm sure you'll get back to normal in no time, especially with coaching too.

When you say that opponent targeted your FH what part of your FH was losing the points?

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http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572

All of his attacks went to my forehand side. Some third ball, some on loose pushes, etc. I never really felt like I was in the right place to deal with this.

I'm also very clearly too close to the table, especially when playing forehands from my backhand corner. I'm gonna work hard on that.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Interesting hearing about your experiment with short pips! I'm less tempted to jump on the short pip wave now. Maybe I should bring out the old Joo blade and try it out with 09c instead.

Opponents targeting the backhand side sounds familiar. I've also found that with more confidence the quality of pushes and chops (speed, depth and placement) goes up enough that it can change the whole game.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

This is something I know but need to keep working on.

Last night I did some match practice against one of my teammates, a retriever. In the first match I tried to play very attacking and every time he attacked, I immediately lost the point. I then played a match where I didn't attack at all, and every time he attacked, it was of no threat at all.

The difference is two things: firstly, I was better positioned, but more importantly the quality of my pushes was way higher. They were long and varied (e.g. LPs or inverted, and different angles), which made it harder for him to get a lot of pace on the ball, and forced him to make more errors. Often when I go into "attack mode", I'm so busy worrying about getting my forehand in that I completely forget to play a proper push. I just kinda "roll" the ball back to my opponent.

In Monday's game I pushed very badly. A lot of that is because of tension - I was playing a competitive match against guys who I "should" beat but who are my regular practice partners at the club, so they know me well. It was also my first game back with LPs so I didn't trust my technique or equipment. If I get rid of the tension, and focus on a) moving well and b) improving the quality of my "short game", I think the quality of my game will improve exponentially.

I just need to remind myself: if my opponents are winning points through their attacking game, is my short game good enough? Usually I just panic and assume they're too good, so I have to start attacking...

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Very interesting reading and quite a spot on analysis about the short game being neglected thinking about your own next attack.

I always found when using OX that if I didn't focus on the BH pushes, opens and twiddles that I played worse. I found when I let my FH do whatever felt natural at the time was better. When I thought about attacking with FH or getting it in I played so much worse lol.

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my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572

This is exactly it! Nail on the head.

What often happens to me is that I play quite defensively, struggle, then try to force the game with my forehand attack. Often though, by doing that, a) I put a lot of pressure on myself and b) the general quality of my game drops.

If I concentrate on making the short game as challenging as possible for my opponent, everything else is easier. I also find I can actually "force" players to attack by doing this, especially with long pimples.

To play these pushes well, one of the key aspects is that I have to be "on my tip toes". I have to take small steps and move after every push. This alone hugely improves my game.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

God I hate my forehand It looks tense and unnatural. I'm going to attempt to remodel it over the coming weeks.

I've also got a defensive match to put on. Same result But it looks a bit less naff.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Nice training though. But was it fun and enjoyable for you or you much prefer to use it less and play more defensive?

Your opponent does give you quite a few opportunities to attack but in a real match would you attack even half that much vs him or no?

I thought your FH looked fine btw
Pretty sure before Mark V I made more errors than you so you're doing alright mate. Did you show the vid to Graeme to get his opinion?

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my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572

This is the style he prefers. I'd consider him a retriever. He pushes over the table, retrieves away from it, and occasionally plays a big forehand winner. Typically, because he doesn't loop, I would tend to attack him exactly like you can see here.

These days though, I'd be tempted to play a more defensive, patient game - as we discussed above, I'd focus heavily on the quality of my short game, and try to wield my forehand attack only on the right balls.

I'll post the defensive version some time soon

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Oh and my issue with the FH is that it's just so bloody vertical. I struggle against float or topspin balls, without really butchering my technique and slowing my stroke down.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

At least you don't butcher everything like me lol my FH is all over the place. Although I think I have similar problem where I swing too vertical too. My contact point has always been flat too, I always struggled to get that next lvl spin

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my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572

It's easier not to think about fh attacking, because that simplifies your game. A big part of becoming a "next level" modern defender is being able to transition seamlessly between defense and attack. Knowing which balls to target, anticipating them and executing.

That's probably my weakest area too. Either too passive (not attacking easy balls enough) or too aggressive (missing more than I should).

What I've tried implementing is setting up some attack sequences. For instance, I'll push or chop long toward their backhand side and anticipate a return to my forehand. If theirs is an attack, I'll defend, but if it's a push or dink ball... I will take my chances going for a winner. Things like that where I only attack against certain setups -- yes, it limits my game... but also simplifies it, to where I make fewer mistakes. Maybe as I improve, the window for attacking will widen too.

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SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

I think this is key, to think about sequences or patterns rather than individual shots. I usually think that against this opponent I need to attack more or less. Which can lead to attacking the wrong balls. Its better then to think that against a specific opponent I should use patterns that leads to more attacking play. As you said this simplifies the game into sequences that you are able to practice in training.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog