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Learning to play: as a modern defender
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254		 Page 44 of 47
Author:  dunc [ 13 Oct 2021, 23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Thanks, that's very kind :) I agree that the SPs don't feel too uncomfortable, but I do think I've got quite a long way to go.

Most of those clips were quite a lot more attacking than I usually like to play. Typically I would much rather chop, and I tend only to attack in games where either my opponent won't, or I can't (e.g. player is too good against defence) but as you can see from those clips, James isn't a big looper. I was hoping to get some proper chopper footage against my other teammate but he wasn't at the club on Monday evening.

I've just contacted one of our league's best players - Graeme Barella, as seen in one or two videos in this thread (County finals etc) - as I know he's been getting into coaching pretty heavily recently. I'll try to get a fortnightly session with him, do some multiball and do some "real ball" drills where he loops at me etc. This could help to take my game to the next level as typically when I practice I don't have access to that kind of player.
Author:  magnuseffect [ 14 Oct 2021, 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote:
Thanks, that's very kind :) I agree that the SPs don't feel too uncomfortable, but I do think I've got quite a long way to go.

Most of those clips were quite a lot more attacking than I usually like to play. Typically I would much rather chop, and I tend only to attack in games where either my opponent won't, or I can't (e.g. player is too good against defence) but as you can see from those clips, James isn't a big looper. I was hoping to get some proper chopper footage against my other teammate but he wasn't at the club on Monday evening.

I've just contacted one of our league's best players - Graeme Barella, as seen in one or two videos in this thread (County finals etc) - as I know he's been getting into coaching pretty heavily recently. I'll try to get a fortnightly session with him, do some multiball and do some "real ball" drills where he loops at me etc. This could help to take my game to the next level as typically when I practice I don't have access to that kind of player.


I wish my game was as smooth, you don't seem stressed at all. Would be interesting to see more chopping. I briefly tried spectol a few years ago but found chopping hard. Been thinking about trying it again, maybe it could work with better technique or using more side spin chops for the really spinny loops.
Author:  dunc [ 14 Oct 2021, 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
That's a real compliment coming from a better version of myself, thanks Magnus :)

My more attacking teammate will be at the club tonight, so I'll collar him to get some footage of my chopping game. Unfortunately none of the players I practice against are great loopers, but next week I'll be recording my coaching footage against a really consistent, spinny looper.
Author:  Ndragon [ 14 Oct 2021, 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
I agree with Magnus though you look quite comfortable and chilled when playing. Magnus is stronger but he is more erratic. Neither a good thing or bad thing though

But your latest video especially does look like you could have a cup of tea while playing :lol:

Looking forward to more. Especially seeing you pressured by a good looper etc. I think you will be fine and probably surprise yourself actually
Author:  dunc [ 14 Oct 2021, 19:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
I suspect it might just be a styles thing. I don't really expect James to attack. When he does... I quite often don't get to the ball :D

I will probably look a lot more frantic against players who loop regularly!
Author:  magnuseffect [ 15 Oct 2021, 05:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Ndragon wrote:
But your latest video especially does look like you could have a cup of tea while playing :lol:


While signing autographs :).

I think my defensive game would be improved by stressing less. But guess it's a style thing too. Chen Weixing reached a pretty high level looking frantic compared to Gionis or Joo.
Author:  Ndragon [ 15 Oct 2021, 05:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
magnuseffect wrote:
Ndragon wrote:
But your latest video especially does look like you could have a cup of tea while playing :lol:


While signing autographs :).

I think my defensive game would be improved by stressing less. But guess it's a style thing too. Chen Weixing reached a pretty high level looking frantic compared to Gionis or Joo.


Chen is still my favourite player! I like watching both styles though but then I am biased to defensive players haha
Author:  dunc [ 15 Oct 2021, 17:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
magnuseffect wrote:
Chen Weixing reached a pretty high level looking frantic compared to Gionis or Joo.

Against good players, Joo looks frantic too. Watch him against Ma Long etc. He never looks like he's in control (probably because he isn't). Against some of the European loopers though, yeah, he looks at ease.

I got some more footage last night, certainly looking more frantic as I lose :D Will tidy it up and upload today.
Author:  dunc [ 15 Oct 2021, 22:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Here we go:



I lost 3-2. It was a close game. You can see from the footage though that I repeatedly lost points on simple pushes.

I worked out against my next opponent that I'd been using a really tight wrist without realising :^) As soon as I got the tension out, my consistency increased tenfold. I usually beat Gareth when I use my LPs, but then I don't usually give him ~5 points per end of unforced errors. I also usually use more than 1 serve!

The match wasn't great to watch, but the final end (starting at 8m13s) had some really good rallies.
Author:  Ndragon [ 16 Oct 2021, 00:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
He said Frantic lol I saw another cup of tea in his hand :lol:

No but in all seriousness once you warmed up I didn't see many points where you were outplayed tbh. You gave up quite a few free points due to errors which in time will be gone anyway. Your diversity is good though as your pushes are right up there danger wise to your chops.

H3 NEO FH? Boosted or not? The FH chops looked quite nasty
Author:  dunc [ 16 Oct 2021, 00:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Yeah, for sure, had I pushed the way I pushed later that evening (this was my first touch of a ball, with a really brief warmup), I think it would've looked quite comfortable. It's good to see the bad bits though, that's how we get better.

Yeah the H3N is boosted, but only a single light layer of Seamoon because the rubber is about ~30 months old (although, due to pandemic, not used very often) and it felt completely dead. I tend not to boost because when it starts to wear off, I start to miss forehands and it becomes a psychological battle of technique vs. equipment.
Author:  Ndragon [ 16 Oct 2021, 03:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Yh I much prefer to see all points except of course service/receive errors. I just learn a lot more from it, feels more human as well :D
Author:  magnuseffect [ 18 Oct 2021, 04:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote:
The match wasn't great to watch, but the final end (starting at 8m13s) had some really good rallies.


Yeah looks like you got serious spin on the chops. Would have liked to see what would happen with more loops in a row. With some more practice you can get some good no spin variation
Author:  dunc [ 18 Oct 2021, 17:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
magnuseffect wrote:
dunc wrote:
The match wasn't great to watch, but the final end (starting at 8m13s) had some really good rallies.


Yeah looks like you got serious spin on the chops. Would have liked to see what would happen with more loops in a row. With some more practice you can get some good no spin variation

Yeah, at the moment, I'm concentrating on just getting the ball on the table :lol:

I've booked in for some coaching on Friday, so I'll have some better footage of loop->chop->loop->chop->loop->chop rallies. The guy coaching me is excellent against backspin.
Author:  dunc [ 24 Oct 2021, 08:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Had my first session with Graeme yesterday evening.



Seriously hard graft... :) You'll see from the 3 matches that he beat me 11-1, 11-6 (or something, whilst playing 40% less power) and 11-8 (or something, whilst not attacking).

At my peak, I was a ~70% win ratio player in our local league's Premier division. I would say there's a level up to the 80% guys, then another level up, then you get to Graeme's level. Everything he does is just harder to play against - serves, pushes, speed/spin of loops, blocking, etc.

Before the session, he watched a couple of my videos and identified my FH as being a weakness, as we've discussed in this thread. It's not really a weakness at my level - it's typically what wins me most of my points - but it has a lot of work to do to help me get to the next level.

During the session we had a few "breakthrough" moments with small things that I can work on to make my game better: wrist tension, wider/lower stance, weight forward (on tip toes almost) and better footwork on my FH side especially when coming into the table.

Having watched some of the footage back, the areas I intend to work on (as well as the "breakthrough" areas) between sessions are:
  • General fitness - I was completely knackered after the first forehand drill
  • Staying low constantly (this is getting better, but you'll see I still stand up at some point in most points)
  • Adding a little bit of "length" to my FH backswing. Atm I take my arm back and it always stays bent. I think I'm losing a lot of power here. Even adding ~15 degrees to that shape will add speed
  • Brushing the top of the ball instead of the back, or trying to just generally play my FH loop "more forwards". I haven't worked this out yet, I'm not sure what the missing ingredient is

Great session though, awesome to be able to play against a player of Graeme's quality, and his coaching is really good too.
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