OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Learning to play: as a modern defender

Mate I be honest! I can see if you keep training with him you will 100% go to next lvl. I can see it already your game with the SPs are gonna get you back to your peak and better.

Them BH hits into FH loops were beautiful

Your pushes and chops give him trouble sometimes too, the pushes especially are strong and put pressure.

He is right about his assessment though (as expected) but from this video the only thing I see lacking is the consistency, and that will come with time. I call it here now when it all comes together we gonna see you doing well at British league etc

On a side note, when watching this and how much movement and impact needed to play at this standard....makes me think to stop playing a mid distance style as of tonight

Thanks for sharing! Nice drills and a good idea to have some with less power. This session is a great benchmark to measure improvement if you repeat it in a few months.

I guess you focused mostly on the forehand here, which is already good, but yeah I also noticed that you could get a bit lower and wider stance. One way of measuring technique improvements on the forehand is that with better technique and lower stance you should be more tired in the legs, but less out of breath.

For the backhand chopping, I think we have a common issue in that the feet is sometimes too parallel to the table causing the stroke to go more sideways than forward and not having enough space for the stroke (body is in the way). This often causes the chop to pop up and is particularly a problem when the ball comes to the middle. An example is the chop at 3:20 in the video (with SP it does give you nice sidespin though). I've been trying to improve by rotating the upper body more so the elbow points forward, but also been coached to take a step forward with the right foot or a step backwards with the left to make more room for the chop. This is similar to what you already do when pushing close to the table or the first chop when starting the point.

I definitely want to get lower, the limitation is just fitness. When I stand more upright, I don't need to use my quad muscles as much. The lower I get, the more I need them, and they're really poorly developed! I'm going to work on this though - Graeme suggested some skipping, and after my wedding on Sunday (which has taken up a lot of physical and mental energy

) I'm going to start doing squats regularly.

Great spot about the chopping stance. Sometimes I seem to do this, other times I don't. If I use this angle though, won't my bat actually be pointing further in the opposite direction? E.g. if I move my left foot back, my bat will be angled toward my opponent's forehand rather than backhand?

Married on Sunday, back to table tennis this evening

I have a new setup too... ! I actually bought it last week, but forgot to post about it. I've tried it on only one evening.

Nittaku Goriki Super Drive (stiff 6 ply all wood OFF blade)
Butterfly Tenergy 80FX 1.9mm (black)
TSP Spectol 1.8mm (red)

The pimples feel great, the blade feels brilliant... but the 80FX doesn't seem to suit the blade. I'm going to persevere with it for now, but short touches/control are really tough, the ball seems to "ping" off the bat. It could also be because I'm coming from a blade with H3 on it though, which is obviously a phenomenal rubber for short play.

You know what I just realised, your spectrol is same sponge size as my Moristo and vertically aligned (not sure what difference that makes though). Is sectrol quite grippy too? Produces a lot of backspin on pushes right, I'm not sure how good Moristo is yet with that I haven't really asked my opponents about it with that or the 802-40 M3

Oh forgot to ask what website you used to upload the pics. And what button you pressed at the top here for them to show

Author:	Ndragon [ 24 Oct 2021, 16:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Mate I be honest! I can see if you keep training with him you will 100% go to next lvl. I can see it already your game with the SPs are gonna get you back to your peak and better. Them BH hits into FH loops were beautiful Your pushes and chops give him trouble sometimes too, the pushes especially are strong and put pressure. He is right about his assessment though (as expected) but from this video the only thing I see lacking is the consistency, and that will come with time. I call it here now when it all comes together we gonna see you doing well at British league etc On a side note, when watching this and how much movement and impact needed to play at this standard....makes me think to stop playing a mid distance style as of tonight

Author:	magnuseffect [ 24 Oct 2021, 22:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Thanks for sharing! Nice drills and a good idea to have some with less power. This session is a great benchmark to measure improvement if you repeat it in a few months. I guess you focused mostly on the forehand here, which is already good, but yeah I also noticed that you could get a bit lower and wider stance. One way of measuring technique improvements on the forehand is that with better technique and lower stance you should be more tired in the legs, but less out of breath. For the backhand chopping, I think we have a common issue in that the feet is sometimes too parallel to the table causing the stroke to go more sideways than forward and not having enough space for the stroke (body is in the way). This often causes the chop to pop up and is particularly a problem when the ball comes to the middle. An example is the chop at 3:20 in the video (with SP it does give you nice sidespin though). I've been trying to improve by rotating the upper body more so the elbow points forward, but also been coached to take a step forward with the right foot or a step backwards with the left to make more room for the chop. This is similar to what you already do when pushing close to the table or the first chop when starting the point.

Author:	dunc [ 25 Oct 2021, 17:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Ndragon wrote: Mate I be honest! I can see if you keep training with him you will 100% go to next lvl. I can see it already your game with the SPs are gonna get you back to your peak and better. Them BH hits into FH loops were beautiful Your pushes and chops give him trouble sometimes too, the pushes especially are strong and put pressure. He is right about his assessment though (as expected) but from this video the only thing I see lacking is the consistency, and that will come with time. I call it here now when it all comes together we gonna see you doing well at British league etc On a side note, when watching this and how much movement and impact needed to play at this standard....makes me think to stop playing a mid distance style as of tonight Thanks One of the challenges will be that I can't see him as often as I'd like. We're going to try weekly, but that won't always be possible. If I could do that session with him 3x per week, my game would improve rapidly. It's a constant problem I have with table tennis, and especially with being a defensive player, that I can only progress rapidly if I get regular exposure to better players. Having trained with Graeme now (I'd only ever played him in matches before, where as you can see, I can't get close) it's easy to say that his loops are the best in our league - by quite some way. I don't know anyone else who would be able to a) consistently loop the way he did and b) power loop through backspin the way he did (later on in the video). Really impressive.

Author:	dunc [ 25 Oct 2021, 18:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
magnuseffect wrote: Thanks for sharing! Nice drills and a good idea to have some with less power. This session is a great benchmark to measure improvement if you repeat it in a few months. I guess you focused mostly on the forehand here, which is already good, but yeah I also noticed that you could get a bit lower and wider stance. One way of measuring technique improvements on the forehand is that with better technique and lower stance you should be more tired in the legs, but less out of breath. For the backhand chopping, I think we have a common issue in that the feet is sometimes too parallel to the table causing the stroke to go more sideways than forward and not having enough space for the stroke (body is in the way). This often causes the chop to pop up and is particularly a problem when the ball comes to the middle. An example is the chop at 3:20 in the video (with SP it does give you nice sidespin though). I've been trying to improve by rotating the upper body more so the elbow points forward, but also been coached to take a step forward with the right foot or a step backwards with the left to make more room for the chop. This is similar to what you already do when pushing close to the table or the first chop when starting the point. I definitely want to get lower, the limitation is just fitness. When I stand more upright, I don't need to use my quad muscles as much. The lower I get, the more I need them, and they're really poorly developed! I'm going to work on this though - Graeme suggested some skipping, and after my wedding on Sunday (which has taken up a lot of physical and mental energy ) I'm going to start doing squats regularly. Great spot about the chopping stance. Sometimes I seem to do this, other times I don't. If I use this angle though, won't my bat actually be pointing further in the opposite direction? E.g. if I move my left foot back, my bat will be angled toward my opponent's forehand rather than backhand?

Author:	magnuseffect [ 26 Oct 2021, 07:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: I definitely want to get lower, the limitation is just fitness. When I stand more upright, I don't need to use my quad muscles as much. The lower I get, the more I need them, and they're really poorly developed! I'm going to work on this though - Graeme suggested some skipping, and after my wedding on Sunday (which has taken up a lot of physical and mental energy ) I'm going to start doing squats regularly. Great spot about the chopping stance. Sometimes I seem to do this, other times I don't. If I use this angle though, won't my bat actually be pointing further in the opposite direction? E.g. if I move my left foot back, my bat will be angled toward my opponent's forehand rather than backhand? Congrats on the wedding! Guess squats or table tennis are not the top priority right now But yeah in my experience physical and mobility training works well. For the chop its about the stroke going more in the direction that you are aiming. So that you control the direction with the whole chop. With feet and body parallel to table the chop usually goes more sideways. if you did the same sideways chop with the left foot back then it would go even more to forehand but hopefully with the body out of the way the chop can go more forwards. Sometimes you don't have time to move the legs, but you can rotate a bit by pointing the left foot and knee more left and rotating the upper body

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Author:	dunc [ 05 Nov 2021, 00:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Married on Sunday, back to table tennis this evening I have a new setup too... ! I actually bought it last week, but forgot to post about it. I've tried it on only one evening. Nittaku Goriki Super Drive (stiff 6 ply all wood OFF blade) Butterfly Tenergy 80FX 1.9mm (black) TSP Spectol 1.8mm (red) The pimples feel great, the blade feels brilliant... but the 80FX doesn't seem to suit the blade. I'm going to persevere with it for now, but short touches/control are really tough, the ball seems to "ping" off the bat. It could also be because I'm coming from a blade with H3 on it though, which is obviously a phenomenal rubber for short play.

Author:	Ndragon [ 05 Nov 2021, 01:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: Married on Sunday, back to table tennis this evening I have a new setup too... ! I actually bought it last week, but forgot to post about it. I've tried it on only one evening. Nittaku Goriki Super Drive (stiff 6 ply all wood OFF blade) Butterfly Tenergy 80FX 1.9mm (black) TSP Spectol 1.8mm (red) The pimples feel great, the blade feels brilliant... but the 80FX doesn't seem to suit the blade. I'm going to persevere with it for now, but short touches/control are really tough, the ball seems to "ping" off the bat. It could also be because I'm coming from a blade with H3 on it though, which is obviously a phenomenal rubber for short play. Yaaay congrats mate On the wedding and bat We need some aesthetic pics or vids of the new bat that cost more than my entire collection

Author:	dunc [ 05 Nov 2021, 01:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Hahah, thanks. I rarely show my bats off because they're either battered, or really badly cut :joy: But I'll see what I can do

Author:	dunc [ 05 Nov 2021, 01:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Et voila:

Author:	Ndragon [ 05 Nov 2021, 02:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Nice! You do a better glue job than me lol You know what I just realised, your spectol is same sponge size as my Moristo and vertically aligned (not sure what difference that makes though). Is sectol quite grippy too? Produces a lot of backspin on pushes right, I'm not sure how good Moristo is yet with that I haven't really asked my opponents about it with that or the 802-40 M3

Author:	Ndragon [ 05 Nov 2021, 02:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Oh forgot to ask what website you used to upload the pics. And what button you pressed at the top here for them to show

Author:	dunc [ 05 Nov 2021, 02:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Ndragon wrote: You know what I just realised, your spectrol is same sponge size as my Moristo and vertically aligned (not sure what difference that makes though). Is sectrol quite grippy too? Produces a lot of backspin on pushes right, I'm not sure how good Moristo is yet with that I haven't really asked my opponents about it with that or the 802-40 M3 Nah, Spectol isn't grippy at all. It has a soft sponge (think it's 35deg?) which allows it to generate some spin, but only on pushes/chops where you manage to get a lot of contact on the ball. It'll never offer as much backspin as something like Super SpinPips Chop Sponge 2, but it's a lot easier to vary the spin, and it's less sensitive to incoming spin. I'm still working out how to control this variation of spin though; at the moment most of it is accidental Ndragon wrote: Oh forgot to ask what website you used to upload the pics. And what button you pressed at the top here for them to show From my phone, I shared them to Google Drive. On my computer, I then right-clicked the images in Google Drive and went to "Share". Set it so anyone can view the images. You then need to get the image ID and add it to the end of this URL: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view ... _GOES_HERE If you then wrap that URL within "Img" tags, you'll see the images hosted directly from your Google Drive, e.g.: Code: [img]https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=IMG_ID_GOES_HERE[/img]

Author:	dunc [ 10 Nov 2021, 01:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Soooo... after all of this chat and interest about using short pimples to chop with, and after buying a full new SP chopping setup, I have now completely changed and gone back to LPs... I'll explain why shortly, but here's a session with Graeme and my LP bat:

Author:	peterpong [ 10 Nov 2021, 18:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
You cant leave us hanging like that dude mebbies graham said that you are better with l/p ?

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Author:	dunc [ 11 Nov 2021, 00:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Every time I've played with SPs in the past, I've moved away from them because I haven't been able to control opponents' spin. I'm happy to say, this time round, that wasn't really a problem. Probably because the plastic ball doesn't generate as much spin... but also I'd like to think I've improved in this respect, especially now that I have a much less tense wrist on my backhand chops. This time, I've decided to come away from SPs for two reasons: I'm not really enjoying using them They don't seem to cause my opponents any difficulty at all I'd gotten to a point where I was reasonably effective with the SPs. I was quite consistent with my chops, really consistent with my pushes... but the light/medium backspin that they consistently put on the ball just didn't really bother anyone. Every player felt more comfortable against me. With regard to point #1, the BH chop just doesn't feel anywhere near as nice as with LPs. They probably have a better feeling against low spin, but against decent topspin I love the grippy feeling that I get with my P1-R. Another minor point is that I can't hit with them at all. I know I could learn this, but I've got such an ingrained LP attack or inverted BH loop, that I can't find the middle ground required to play a SP drive. I asked Graeme his thoughts during the session with LPs, and he thinks I'm finding it significantly easier to chop consecutive loops with the LPs than the SPs. He also made a lot more mistakes against the LPs; I don't remember him missing any loops at all when he coached me with the SPs.