OOAK Table Tennis Forum

King, you are probably twice he player that I am but I'm glad that you think slow is the way to go as I fully accept this conclusion. Learned a lot from your accurate observations too.

_________________
A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

To a certain degree that is the conclusion. With a very slow blade you will have more problems against lower ranked players. So the right speed is very important and depends on your level and the style you want to play so the right speed blade is different for pretty much everyone. For now the win-tec blade seems to be the perfect balance between speed and control. I can play better against higher ranked players because I have more time to get ready for the next shot but still win easily against lower ranked players. With the victas and shake defence I had to put in a lot more effort to win against lower ranked players.

For comparison I played a few sets with my t-10 against lower ranked players and I won easily without doing much because I can pick pretty much any ball on the bounce and the balls is flat, fast and low the opponent can't do much with it. Fantastic combination but only works up to a certain level unless you are very very fast. The reason it doesn't work against high level players is because there is too much speed and spin on the ball to keep picking balls off the bounce and the return even from far away from the table is fast and flat which give me very little time to get ready for the next shot. Attacking with the t-10 and palio is still amazing and wins points against any opponent.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

I like your blog. Some observations and some questions, here...

Observations:
I also have the problem where the blade that I played best against lower level players was too fast to control the chops against the better players. I came to the conclusion that I build another blade with a little slower backhand, and as I get more used to it, it plays well against the better players. I just need to hit harder with it. I can still beat the lower level players, but need to put more effort into it.

Questions:
Have you ever tried Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft to be able to compared it to the Victas 401?

I also both chop and hit with my inverted, and my worst problem is popping up the ball on chops of very spinny loops. What do you do when you get a very spinny loop to your forehand?

What wood configuration did you order from Peter? And what speeds do you expect on forehand and backhand? I think my latest is about OFF or OFF-/ALL or DEF+, and it plays very well.

I see you plan to put the handles on and shape it yourself. I do that, too, because I prefer to make it more normal shaped and symetrical anyway. I've never seen/played with one of those Tibhar Def blades to know the difference. I much prefer the solid abachi handles, BTW, as they are much stronger and I no longer have any blades breaking at the handle joint area. I have been drilling the lower part of them to keep the weight down, though.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

I agree with the thoughts here on fast blades. I tested a Schlager Carbon with D.Tecs and absolutely steamrolled lower level players, however I was unable to defeat higher level opponents whom I had previously beaten with slower equipment. Hard hits always rebounded long.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Hi Elvis, interesting blog. I was wandering why you didn't test the Donic defplay senso which is also mentioned in a lot of compaisons between popular defensive blades. Another question is abou the p4, first you seemed positive about the rubber. Later you changed it for a Dornenglanz (ox?). Why?
And the last question...you mentioned some characteristics of some blades but it would also be interesting to compare them on different aspects like throw, hard/soft, fast/slow, flex, etc.
Something like...Speed (from fast to slow): joola Chen > win-tec > vkm > nittaku sd etc.
Still playing with the win-tec?
Cheers, BarryB

Ps: Heb nog een gebruikte en een nieuwe Dornenglanz liggen, wellicht kunnen we wat ruilen (bijv de p4 als die nog in goede staat is)

Funny you mention the defplay, I bought the defplay senso last week and have not used anther blade since.

Dornenglanz / p4 kunnen we wel wat mee regelen denk ik.

Planning to post more info on the blades this weekend.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Long overdue but an update. After testing many blades during last summer I bought a defplay senso late November. Not sure even why I bought it but many people were writing positive reviews about the blade and the blade was on sale so I thought why not. This was just before or at least around the time we found out Shiono switched to the defplay. One reason I did not test the defplay last summer was because I thought it would be too slow. Well 1 day after I bought my first defplay blade I ordered 2 more as I really really liked the blade. Great on chops, great on topspin, very good blocking, very good on serves.

So I settled on the blade, the next step would be to find the right pips and inverted rubbers. My all time classic and favorite palio ck531a was decent but nothing special, d-tecs great, dornenglanz better on atacks than on the wintec power defence but disruptive effect non existent. I could hardly make an error with the dornenglanz though I also tried a sheet of dawei 388d(which i have plenty mostly because they were cheap) and didn't expect any wonders but it worked amazingly well. Very good disruptive effect, fantastic when chopping but soso on dead no spin balls. One reason the 388d worked so well could be that the sheets are all 5+ years old(but unused). Anyway against topspin players the 388d was fantastic. As I was told by the Russian topspin player featured in a video I posted earlier the spin on the ball was very unpredictable. The same strokes didn't always produce the same amount of spin.

So I settled for the 388d pips, as I plan on playing in high divisions where most players will be agressive attacking players so the problem with no spin balls should hardly be a problem.

Then the inverted rubber. For some reason I started testing with hard Chinese rubbers, DHS Hurricane III, DHS Skyline 3 and galaxy mars. This worked surprisingly well, spin was above average , chopping worked well and receiving serves was very easy. The hard inverted rubber also made the pips work better. I also tested Bluefire M2 which didn't work as well as I expected. This could be a problem with the sheet as I maybe stretched it a bit too much attaching it to the defplay. Andro rasant worked well but receiving serves was a problem. Tibhar aurus soft was an early favorite and I am still using it today. Adidas P7 worked well but I recently started using Yasake new Era (Thread viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2144&p=265817#p265817) which is a fantastic chopping rubber.

I still wasn't completely happy with the 388D as it gave me trouble against lower ranked players. On mondays and fridays I play lower because I enjoy the playing time and also coach/train them. On Wednesdays I play the higher ranked players. On wednesday my level improved greatly but I struggled a but/had to work harder against the lower ranked players with no spin balls. The yasaka new era helped in this department as I can score many direct points on serves. Another day another long pip, enter Giant Dragon Talon(thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15000&p=265815#p265815).

As I have 3 defplay blades I am thinking of these setups:

Yasaka new era 2mm or maybe 2.2mm with 388d ox for playing against topspin players/high level players
Tibhar Aurus 2mm with Giant Dragon Talon ox For a more offensive game topspin players/high level players and lower ranked players
Yasaka new era 2mm or maybe 2.2mm with Talon or dornenglanz for an allround game

I may switch to a full Talon setup as I only lose a little on chopping/disruptive effect with Talon but I gain a lot on no spin balls.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

After trying a sheet of xiom Vega pro in max I bought a sheet and tested it last night. I am very impressed with this rubber, the top layer seems to be of very high quality. It is a bit on the heavy side but most rubbers nowadays are.

Spin on serves is amazing, counter attack is more than decent and the Vega is very controlled in the short game and not very soon sensitive. I'd say the Vega pro is something like a bridge between hard China rubbers like hurricane 3 and modern tensors.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

I find most of the Vega series are a little like that (except probably the more recent 'Japan'), which seem to have quite soft and highly grippy topsheet, unlike the other series which have a more euro-type grippy topsheet.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I played a national tournament today, 3 groups of 9 and everybody in each group plays against everybody in their group. Not surprisingly not all 9 players showed up in every group (this happens every year). We ended up with 3 groups of 7 so 6 matches.

As I wrote before I train against lower ranked players on Monday and high level players on Wednesday, the players I faced today were somewhat better than the Monday players but nowhere near the level of the Wednesday night players. On paper I was the strongest player in my group. I could afford to lose my first match so I started with my slow setup with the yasaka era and 388d on the defplay just to see how it would turn out. I knew my opponent from last year, left handed, strong forehand and short pips on backhand. I was struggling a bit but this was also because of the venue I think: white walls, slippery floor, terrible light and dirty tables(for the dutchies:de brug in Apeldoorn).

Surprisingly the hall was built just a year ago, I wonder who thought white walls in a table tennis hall was a good idea. I could not step away from the table further than 1 meter or I would not see the ball anymore (we did however play with orange balls).

Eventually I won my first match but it took 5 sets and more effort than I'd expected. In my 5 other matches I used the xiom Vega pro and talon and lost only 1 set which was more because a lack of focus. I played mostly close to the table playing a variety of chops, pushes, blocks and attacks mostly with pips. Combined with a good variety in serves this proved to be very effective.

Very happy with the talon, as I noticed before pips on the defplay perform better with a harder forehand rubber. I will test this combination a bit more as I only just started playing with the Vega pro. Now that I think of it I only played with the Vega for about 15 minutes until today.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

How do you find Talon compared to Dtechs ?
Dtechs is no longer in your signature..

Soren

_________________
[color=#FF0000]Setup 1: Joola Chen Weixing - Tenergy 05 2.1 red - Tibhar Grass Dtechs Black 0,5
Current rating : 1825.

I used to say talon was better on no spin balls but after playing with d-tecs on the defplay today with no problems on dead no spin balls I say d-tecs is better at everything. A problem with talon are backspin/underspin balls and passive blocking with talon is not as easy as with d-tecs because talon is slower. Talon is less predictable for your opponent but also less predictable for yourself, the same shot doesn't always produce the same result.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

And the winner is..... Me!

Yesterday was the final of the national tournament I posted about earlier. 9 players so 8 matches. I knew what to expect as I saw all players play at the semi finals. I had a good chance of winning and I did. I lost only 3 sets in 8 matches and was never really in any trouble.

Last year I also had a good chance of winning but I didn't have any energy left for the final match so I ended up in second place. I was playing with the idea of going through to the final as second or third so I would face the stronger opponents early on. I quickly scrapped that idea and worked on my stamina a bit and made sure I kept eating and drinking throughout the day. I also tried not to waste energy in the matches and this went quite well, I had a few matches that were over within a few minutes.

There was 1 player who also won all his semi final matches and he was seeded second, I was seeded first. This turned out well for me, I saw him play my next opponent every round so I knew what to expect. I also saw him struggle against opponents I could beat easily so this gave me confidence for the final match. Final match was OK, lost 1 set but was in control throughout the match.

I changed equipment only a few days ago, xiom Vega japan and d-tecs on my trusted defplay and this worked very well. The catapult of the Vega is fantastic when attacking even on the defplay. On serves it was very good as well. The d-tecs performed as they should, no trouble with humidity and no problem on dead no spin balls.

I moved up one category now, D licence. I will look up some lists how many players we have here in each licence category to put things in perspective.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Do you still use the Vega Japan on the Defplay?

I use it as well (2.0 mm) but I found that the first few matches are great, when the rubber has a little more playing time it gets a bit out of touch/control on the defplay. So still searching for a perfect match on the FH. Curl p4 0.5 mm works great on the BH. I mainly use them for attacking. Comparable to this German guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMSKiSd-HVg.
Bit annoyed that I did find a perfect combination yet for my FH.

I also tried another favorite blade. The Adidas Hypertouch which is soft and fast. Works great with Vega Pro or Adidas P7 on my FH but because it's soft and fast, BH shots with my curl P4 were out of control.

Wondering how I can get the best of both worlds. Either finding a perfect FH rubber for the defplay (I loop 90% of the time) or find a way to slow my BH down on the Hypertouch. Been looking into things like damping foils, or maybe trying 2 gluesheets on top of eachother (between the P4 and the Hypertouch) but I don't know if that will work.

Still using Vega Japan on the defplay. After a week or 2 there was a crack at the top of the rubber so I reglued and stretched the sheet a bit but this didn't do the sheet any good as it lost a bit of catapult and power. I then put some tuning oil on the sponge and the catapult was back.

I've tried several combination bats in the past but as I wrote some time ago already with the rubbers of nowadays you can create a big difference in speed between forehand and backhand using the right rubbers.

I did change defplay blades recently, I have 3. My oldest defplay is clearly different than the other 2(which were bought at the same time). The oldest one is slower and disruptive effect with pips is higher.

Speaking of the curl p4, in the final of the tournament last month I played against someone with curl p4. Disruptive effect of p4 was nearly non existent.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence