OOAK Table Tennis Forum

So - match tonight, against one of the mid-table teams. We'd expect to lose, being the least experienced team, but we've learned a hell of a lot this season already, and keep improving. The sad news was that one of their players - retriever, SP OX FH anti BH wasn't able to play, so I only got two games.

The first was against a fellow whose style is what I would describe as very consistent. He moves fairly well, and just plays well positioned FH and BH topspin shots with variation of spin and pace. He rarely makes mistakes. I decided against him to play with my OX LP, and twiddle and block to mix up his rhythm. It wasn't very effective, mainly because it's not a bat I've played with much, but I won a few points - losing 11-4 11-4. I then switched back to my normal bat (not sure that's actually allowed), and did much better - able to vary more and got up to deuce, losing 12-10. Overall I was pleased with how I played.

The second was against a solid allrounder. I've played him lots of times for fun, but never competitively. He has a whole range of nasty serves, al of which he wheeled out, and won quite a few points that way. Other than that, he played mid-paced balls with little or no spin, and I wasn't able to do much with them - I couldn't generate much spin on the BH, and although I hit a few FH shots, I also missed a few too. I felt thoroughly outplayed, and rather disappointed. The sense I had was that he didn't really need to do anything, and just won without any effort.

After the match I practiced a bit with one of my team mates, experimenting with trying to hit BH shots against lose balls with LP. I could't get any on the table - they all seemed to go long and flat with little or no spin. I experimented with waiting for the ball to drop lower, which did result in a lower, skiddier shot that was effective but risky.

Any suggestions on how I could have made more chances, or evoked more mistakes in my second game?

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Yeah mate that's completely illegal You can so it between matches but not in a match unless you demonstrably and accidentally damage your original racket. You'll know for next time at least!

It's really tough playing against low/no-spin balls with LPs. Your only real answers are placement (mega short if you can, otherwise long, low and fast) or to twiddle and dig in with your inverted to keep the ball spinning.

Takes a lot of practice and for me it's the trickiest thing about learning LP play. I find it much easier with thick sponge than thin sponge too so I'd imagine OX somewhat exaggerates the problem.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Aha - ok - I won't do that again then!



Yes - this is what I did in the third set - twiddle and managed to get some more spin. I think I was also being a bit half-hearted with my shots - perhaps I could have been a bit more vicious and tried to force some spin.



Yeah I only played those two legs against Mr Consistent with OX. Interesting experiment, but I played the whole of the second match with the usual bat. Maybe something to discuss with the coach tomorrow?

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Yeah definitely. You'll encounter a lot of flat-hitting low-spin players right up until the top of local league play so you need to make sure you have weapons to beat them. Mine is my spinny forehand but sometimes that isn't enough.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Had my first 2 hr training session today. Started with straightforward FH to FH drill. Observations and improvements:

- I tend to over extend on my follow through, meaning it takes too long to get back to ready position. I concentrated on stopping at about face level. I guess this might be different on hard chinese rubbers.
- I tend to have insufficient backswing, so I struggle to generate enough spin. I worked on lengthening this and generating more spin.

Next we did footwork drills by hitting FH from right, middle and left to coach's left, in series. Good exercise!

Next we worked on BH LP chops. I tended to hit them rather high, and we worked on fixing this. Turns out I was doing rather a scoopy action rather than a flatter choppy action - I found that when I closed the angle and swept in front rather than scooped forward, this worked much better. We worked on this for a long time, with increasing amounts of spin for me to deal with. We also mixed in the occasional push/block stroke from a bit behind the table, resulting in spin reversal and pace variation without much downward motion. This was quite effective.

Next we worked on FH chops, which again needed some correction regarding scoopy action to keep them lower. We then did FH LP chops and blocks - again, the sort of push/block from a few feet behind resulting in a spin-reversed slower ball was a useful option.

Finally we looked at interjecting attacking shots for variety and to avoid the situation in last night's match where my opponent could just play mid-paces no-spin balls, leaving me not much of an option. Coach encouraged me to twiddle and hit BH drives with inverted, which was very effective. I'm good at twiddling, and this way I can mix up more, and keep the opponent on their toes - if they know they could get a spinny BH or FH shot at any time, they can't be so relaxed about it.

Good and interesting session. I've told him about the forum, and lent him my OX bat so he can have a play. He says he'll join and learn more about LP from our community.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I recognize the over extending, I do that myself a lot... but beware if you are going to train on that not to forget to actually make the followthrough... that's been my problem quite some time. Better to over extend then to not follow through at all.

Also, the bit earlier about having difficulty agains the player who played little or no spin. A lot of players would chose to do that against a player with LP or anti. Because it means you can't do much with that side. In the lower leagues they'll do that because they simply can't play with much spin. But the higher you go players who can actually spin will decide not to after seeing your setup so better get used to it!

_________________
Setup 1: S&T Unicorn / Secret Flow Chop 1.5 / Hellfire X OX
Setup 2: Dr. Neubauer Barricade DEF / Defence Master 1.5 / Desperado Reloaded OX
Setup 3: Dr. Neubauer Barricade DEF / Butterfly Tackiness Chop 1.5 / Palio CK531a OX

So Tuesday's knockabout was pretty good. I comfortably beat the fellow who's slightly less experienced than me. I played the lady who is slightly better, and lost closely. Interestingly, a chap I played a match against a few weeks back was there, and we played about 7 or 8 games. I lost most of then about 11-7/8 but did win one.

Had a chance to practice chops against loops again, which was useful. The top player puts an incredible amount of side on his loops which makes them very tricky to judge and return where I want. Just anywhere on the table is a result!

I also played against the OX SP fellow, and played pretty well. Following on from my coaching session last week, I twiddled more and did some blocks and .. I dunno just generic returns with LP FH. Got considerable wobble effect, and was able to get many shots back - this was a good development.

I've also been thinking a great deal about provoking an attack and anticipating it, both with serves and with placement. Psychologically I'm finding that helps - I want to be attacked, I expect to be attacked, and for some reason that makes a difference.

I also played a bit of penhold just for fun, using LP FH. Of course I don't have the right bat for this really, but it was very effective anyway. I was able to block at all sorts of interesting angles, and my FH hit was very fast indeed. I enjoyed the change, and although I'm not sure of the wisdom of playing two styles, we play the game for fun as well as improvement, and it was certainly an interesting diversion. To this end, as a xmas/birthday present I've ordered a cpen 729 bomb, and will probably stick my Sanwei Code OX on it, and keep that around for amusement.

On the equipment side, I've gone ahead and ordered some spare Tibhar Defence Plus blades, and will set one of them up with SP/LP for experimentation. I'm only really doing this to learn my way around how the equipment behaves, and learn more about the game, rather than as an everlasting quest for the perfect setup. I'm more than happy with my primary blade, but it's good fun to experiment, and with xmas/birthday coming up it's been easy to tell friends and relatives to contribute to my ping pong stuff! As my wife says: more bats for my belfry (what she calls my bat case!).

Got a match tonight, against another strong side. To put things in perspective, in the Portsmouth league there are five divisions. The top division players also play in the regional 2nd or 3rd division or higher. I've been told I currently play at roughly division 4 level, but in the league my team competes in theres a range of players who play from division 4 standard up to division 1 standard, all in the same league. Tonight is probably composed of division 3 or 2 players. The fellow from tuesday practice is going to play tonight, along with my brother (who plays most matches).

Will report back more!

And yes - pictures and videos... I'm on it! Thanks for reading

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

So two things of interest today! First, my 729 bomb arrived! I had a look in the stores, and the obviously superfluous rubber I had was some CK531A, so I stuck that on, and had a few games with the (increasingly keen) children, on the kitchen table. This was enough to tell me that it blocked well, and was awesome for hard, flat hitting. The children are coming along too, and starting to get keen enough that I might buy a job lot of beginners bats for them. Suggestions?

Then, this evening, another match. This is against the weakest team in the league - the cadets team, featuring capable, trained, but inexperienced young players. I've played this team twice, and practice with some of the players on a Monday night, so I knew what to expect.

First game was against the girl I played last week. I didn't play well, and she played very well - patiently, and only hitting out when there was a good chance. I lost in 4, and was outplayed. I was pleased for her - she's been trying hard, and she earned her win.

The next game was against the strongest player in the team. I've played her before, twice, I think, and lost in 5 on both occasions. She's a fierce, aggressive player. The first time I played her, I just picked on her weakeness (backhand) and exploited it. It wasn't enough, but it was a useful tactical exercise. I think the second time I did the same. This time I tried a different approach - trying to provoke her to attack. I served mostly heavy topspin, long, down the line to her FH, inviting her to try to hit a 2nd ball winner. 7/10 times she hit it long. Occasionally I'd mix in a backspin serve, which she sometimes hit into the net. Other than that, it was pushing rallies. She didn't get to play her topspin FH or BH shots (which suggests I kept pushing short, with underpin), and usually she lost patience and hit off the table. I was timid and didn't attack any short/high balls. I won in 4. But I didn't really feel happy. In the last few games I gave away some poor points, on both service, and pushes that went too long. I got really quite angry and vocal, which isn't like me. I think I sensed I had a rare chance to get a plus score, and got frustrated when I played poor shots. So - while I won, I wasn't very happy with my performance.

The final game was against the fellow I played recently at practice, and had beaten. That gave me a psychological edge. Also he struggled against my serve, usually hitting my BH underspin slice serves into the net, my sidespin and topspin serves off the table. Other than that, I mixed up my pushes and occasional chops, and he made all the mistakes. I won in 4, after he rallied well in the 3rd. Again, when I started looking under pressure in the 4th (having lost the third), I became cross, and regretted my vocal outbursts.

So - I won 2/3. That's my best ever performance. Yet I feel like I didn't play well, and I'm disappointed that I lost my cool. I suppose I played some good tactics, but I'm not happy about how I played.

I did get a chance to hit with a team mate, with my bomb/ck531. Initial impressions:

- Great for spin reversal and blocks
- Good control - I could give deft touches and get nasty angles
- Awesome for hitting if needed - I hit a few incredibly fast FH winners.

I'm still inexperience with BH, but I like the style, and it certainly causes problems!

That's all for now...

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

So Tuesday afternoon knockabout. I went along despite feeling a bit rough. First up I played with the chap I usually play, and usually beat. Only this time I played with my new penholder bat, for fun. Immediate observations - very good for blocking, and lots of spin reversal. Not much spin on the serve. 90% of my hits went long, but I still won very comfortably, 3-0. That was enough messing around, and I went back to the usual setup. It's a style I enjoy playing, and it doesn't seem to impact my usual style.

Played a bit of doubles, and was in good fettle - nice touches and a few good winners. Then I played against the lady who is slightly better than me. Lost the first 11-5, the second 14-12, and won the third. She's what I'd call a defender/retrieved, with a fierce backhand hit. I found if I attacked on the third ball, I could disrupt her. She' my equal or better in pushing rallies, and she gets a lot of spin on her returns, so hard to hit them. I wasn't unhappy with my performance, but I did lose my cool again when I made mistakes.

Next I played my father, who's just got back from a few months abroad. He's a much better player than me - modern defender in style. Of course he was rusty, but I was very pleased with how played. Lost 3-0, but got to deuce twice, and played some very good rallies. That was definitely a measure of my improvement.

Next I played one of the chaps I've known longest - he's a fast two wing counter hitter with a range of nasty serves. I played really well against him, and though I lost in 3, I got some very good chops in and made life hard for him - he had to work hard to win. Previously I got the sense he wasn't out of first gear.

Finally I played the first fellow again, with my usual bat. I lost 2-1, and only won the third 18-16. He was playing out of his skin - making very few mistakes, and putting away lose shots. However I became conscious that I wasn't dropping back and chopping or giving him anything tricky - just pushing and varying direction which didn't cause him any problems. I got really cross with myself, thinking: I should be able to beat this fellow! Not a trait I am liking in myself...

After the game, one of the better players said he felt I was being too passive against high pushes, and needed to be more assertive there. Food for thought.

Finally I played my Dad again, with the bomb. Good fun again, but he won with more ease. Again, 90% of my hits went long. Not my much... and if they'd landed, they weren't coming back...

All in all, a good session, but unhappy about temperament against closely matched players.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Here's "The Bomb" (my first attempt at some pictures!)

FH is CK531A 0.6mm



Nothing on the back yet! But you can see where my fingers go!

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

put some inverted rubber on the back of your bomb cpen and you'll get more precise placement with your LP...also you could twiddle and attack lose ball with the inverted..

_________________
Still Missing the Speed Glue

Why would I get more precise placement? Because my fingers would grip better?

I was thinking of either OX Sanwei Code (as I already have some spare) or Dr Evil. I don't have any black inverted in the stores, but something like 729 FX Super or Skyline 3 is cheaply available and easy to get hold of.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

because it will make the blade a little heavy..this will increase percentage of the ball block by LP get on the table instead of flying high especially if you deal with heavy topspin..cheap inverted like 729fx is okay for decent smash and serve.

_________________
Still Missing the Speed Glue

OK - I might slap some Super 729 FX or just get some more 729 Supersoft, which I know and like. I can see having a spinny inverted to serve could be valuable. Serving with the LP is a bit restrictive. I've not tried twiddling CPen before... just had a few goes, and I think I can get used to it. Any tips?

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Getting a grip or badminton grip around the hande could be useful for twiddling..but I think bomb handle is big enough at least for my typical asian hand:P

_________________
Still Missing the Speed Glue